[🇵🇰-Airforce] Pakistan to Get Chinese-Made Shenyang J-35 Fifth-Gen Fighter Aircraft Within 24 Months

[Jiangnan]

Brother - he deserves to express his opinion. Let's see what logic he comes up with.

I just don't want him to disrupt this thread. You know, He often changes the topic.

 

[Bilal9]

Because China has a track record of buying defence stuff which they had declared inferior to Chinese stuff. For example buying Su30 when they had J10, Buying Su35 when they had fifth generation plane J20,. They said that their HQ 9 is superior to S300 and S400 but ultimately bought Russian stuff. In past, same was the case with submarine as well. China exported JF17 to Pakistan but continued with old Mig21 but didn't induct JF17.

Every nation has different roles for different types of assets and platforms according to their military planning and doctrine. They can buy some and make some. The key is what they are capable of producing in indigenous fashion, without depending on external sources. Which is not what India can do.

Do you know that the SU30 the Chinese "bought" was also produced in China itself as J15 and J16 ?? All the systems in these J15 and J16 are made in China itself (WS 10B engines, avionics like AESA radar). China's deployed J16s (more modern than India's SU 30 MKI) will exceed 350 plus units now. How many SU-30 MKIs does India have ?? About 259 ?

@Jiangnan I don't know if I am entirely truthful above.

 

[Bilal9]

I just don't want him to disrupt this thread. You know, He often changes the topic.

I know, changing topic is against forum rules, thread hijack etc. I am always alert on that.

 

[Jiangnan]

Every nation has different roles for different types of assets and platforms according to their military planning and doctrine. They can buy some and make some. The key is what they are capable of producing in indigenous fashion, without depending on external sources. Which is not what India can do.

Do you know that the SU30 the Chinese "bought" was also produced in China itself as J15 and J16 ?? All the systems in these J15 and J16 are made in China itself (WS 10B engines, avionics like AESA radar). China's deployed J16s (more modern than India's SU 30 MKI) will exceed 350 plus units now. How many SU-30 MKIs does India have ?? About 259 ?

@Jiangnan I don't know if I am entirely truthful above.

I don't know if you have noticed another issue I raised - attendance rate.

J-10C, J-15, J-16, J-20, J-35A, etc. all use Chinese aviation engines.

Actual performance.

J-10C flies directly from China to Egypt. The mileage is 8000km without any faults.

The J-10C formation flew over Mount Everest. Prove that it still works excellently in extreme cold and high-altitude hypoxic environments.

The Liaoning aircraft carrier strike group took off and landed 420 J-15 in 8 days

The Shandong aircraft carrier strike group took off and landed 480 J-15 aircraft within 9 days.

This is attendance rate. Above, all sources of information can be provided.

Now let's take a look at the Indian Air Force.

Indian fighter jets are equipped with engines from Russia, France, and the United States. Then watch the J-10C fly at a distance of 300 km from New Delhi

My opinion is. Indian fighter jet, fly first...

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Every nation has different roles for different types of assets and platforms according to their military planning and doctrine. They can buy some and make some. The key is what they are capable of producing in indigenous fashion, without depending on external sources. Which is not what India can do.

Do you know that the SU30 the Chinese "bought" was also produced in China itself as J15 and J16 ?? All the systems in these J15 and J16 are made in China itself (WS 10B engines, avionics like AESA radar). China's deployed J16s (more modern than India's SU 30 MKI) will exceed 350 plus units now. How many SU-30 MKIs does India have ?? About 259 ?

@Jiangnan I don't know if I am entirely truthful above.

You mentioned about J15 here. Do you want to know what Chinese media tells about J15? They call it a bogus aircraft which can not carry more than 2 ton payload from deck. If you want, I can post the article link.

 

[Bilal9]

You mentioned about J15 here. Do you want to know what Chinese media tells about J15? They call it a bogus aircraft which can not carry more than 2 ton payload from deck. If you want, I can post the article link.

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

 

[Lulldapull]

Gents we are discussing legacy weapons here. Mark my words within a decade or so, manned aviation will get phased out and within a generation from now, that's 25 years, there will be no more manned combat vehicles nor ships and certainly not warplanes anymore.

I said this years ago looking at the Iranian UCAV/ ballistic missile program a decade ago and lo n behold, today Elond Musk says the F-35 is junk!

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

Do not get excited. Chinese so called 5th generation planes have 4- generation stuff in it. They are made to look like fifth generation. They have substandard engines, substandard electronics and substandard weapons. There is nothing fifth generation stuff in Chinese jets and that is why India does not take them seriously. J 20 was detected by MKI from far away distance.

So far as Tejas is concerned, it was not conceived as multirole fighter to all the Jobs of rafale. It was conceived as the replacement of Mig 21 and it has done exceptionally well. It is a top-class fighter of its class. An excellent point defense fighter with excellent ground attack capabilities in nearby areas. So far as India is concern, we do not copy anything and everything which we get the chance to copy. Our MWF is coming. A top-class fighter with Rafale like abilities. Our ORCA and AMCA are in pipeline. When they arrive, they will lead the fighter market. Our defense stuff has attracted customers across the globe unlike China whose more than half of the military exports goes to a single country named Pakistan.

 

[Saif]

Because China has a track record of buying defence stuff which they had declared inferior to Chinese stuff. For example buying Su30 when they had J10, Buying Su35 when they had fifth generation plane J20,. They said that their HQ 9 is superior to S300 and S400 but ultimately bought Russian stuff. In past, same was the case with submarine as well. China exported JF17 to Pakistan but continued with old Mig21 but didn't induct JF17.

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

 

[Krishna with Flute]

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

But that Reverse engineering was so poor that even Pakistan denied WS10/11 inplace of RD33.

 

[Jiangnan]

Every nation has different roles for different types of assets and platforms according to their military planning and doctrine. They can buy some and make some. The key is what they are capable of producing in indigenous fashion, without depending on external sources. Which is not what India can do.

Do you know that the SU30 the Chinese "bought" was also produced in China itself as J15 and J16 ?? All the systems in these J15 and J16 are made in China itself (WS 10B engines, avionics like AESA radar). China's deployed J16s (more modern than India's SU 30 MKI) will exceed 350 plus units now. How many SU-30 MKIs does India have ?? About 259 ?

@Jiangnan I don't know if I am entirely truthful above.

Do not get excited. Chinese so called 5th generation planes have 4- generation stuff in it. They are made to look like fifth generation. They have substandard engines, substandard electronics and substandard weapons. There is nothing fifth generation stuff in Chinese jets and that is why India does not take them seriously. J 20 was detected by MKI from far away distance.

So far as Tejas is concerned, it was not conceived as multirole fighter to all the Jobs of rafale. It was conceived as the replacement of Mig 21 and it has done exceptionally well. It is a top-class fighter of its class. An excellent point defense fighter with excellent ground attack capabilities in nearby areas. So far as India is concern, we do not copy anything and everything which we get the chance to copy. Our MWF is coming. A top-class fighter with Rafale like abilities. Our ORCA and AMCA are in pipeline. When they arrive, they will lead the fighter market. Our defense stuff has attracted customers across the globe unlike China whose more than half of the military exports goes to a single country named Pakistan.

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

Think about it. India announced that they used MiG-21 to shoot down F-16. And now they are begging SU-57.

Normal people would understand. Indians are not in the same universe as us.

Can someone tell me. Can India manufacture AMCA airframes?

 

[Jiangnan]

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

J-20, More than 200.

My question is. When India cannot obtain US engines. Who can save the Indian Air Force?

 

[Jiangnan]

But that Reverse engineering was so poor that even Pakistan denied WS10/11 inplace of RD33.

We humans all know. The Pakistan J-10C uses the WS-10 engine.

Now tell me. When can India manufacture AMCA airframes?

 

[Jiangnan]

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

Don't tell the Indians~ China has never had a MiG-21. and Pakistani J-10C used WS-10 engines.

Let's see how many jokes there are in India