🇧🇩 Dr. Yunus's Trip to UNGA and More

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High expectations from Dr Yunus's UNGA trip
Scope for improved relations and collaborations

VISUAL: STAR

For Bangladesh, the 79th session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) holds more significance than usual as this is the first major global summit the country is taking part in following the fall of the Sheikh Hasina regime. Chief Adviser Prof Muhammad Yunus flew out of the capital at around 5:10am on September 23 to attend the UNGA, as well as a number of meetings. Given his international stature, we expect to see opportunities open up for Bangladesh to build meaningful, strategic collaborations that will help with its reform agenda in the short term, and with trade, economic growth and development in the long term.

The chief adviser is scheduled to address the UNGA on September 27, where he will present the context of the anti-discrimination student movement that evolved into a mass uprising in the face of state-sponsored violence, ultimately ending the 15-plus years of Sheikh Hasina's authoritarian rule. He is also set to highlight the reform initiatives that his government has undertaken, which we believe is a crucial part of his UNGA agenda. Presenting before the world our people's aspirations for a strong, fair and equitable justice system, impartial state machinery that serves only the people, and a democratic system where no one's voice is suppressed is key to gaining acceptance and cooperation from the international community—both at the government-to-government and people-to-people levels.

On the sidelines of the UNGA, the chief adviser is scheduled to meet US President Joe Biden on September 24. This meeting is considered significant as it's the reflection of US support for the interim administration in Bangladesh, according to diplomatic sources in New York. Plus, it's not usual for a US president to hold bilateral meetings during the UNGA. So, we hope to see a new strategic partnership emerge out of this meeting that will strengthen our ties with the US and protect our interests at the same time. Another high-level meeting is set to take place between Bangladesh Foreign Affairs Adviser Md Touhid Hossain and Indian External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar, which we expect to kick-start the process to normalise relations between the neighbouring countries after weeks of tension surrounding Hasina's fall and her being sheltered in India.

The chief adviser is also set to hold bilateral meetings with several heads of governments, and some of our strategic and development partners, including the EU. Bangladesh will also host a high-level reception on September 24, marking the 50th anniversary of its UN membership, and will attend a high-level side event on the Rohingya crisis.

As it goes through a massive transformation following the events of August 5, Bangladesh has yet to find an even footing. Our economy continues to struggle, our foreign exchange reserve crisis is still concerning, and our export earnings are still not up to the mark. Years of corruption and irregularities have left some lasting wounds, and to heal them, we need help from our partners. We hope the interim government will be able to garner the support needed to smoothen Bangladesh's reforms and aid in its interests moving forward.​

 

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Dr Yunus at UNGA 2024: A pivotal moment for Bangladesh's trade diplomacy

For Dr Muhammad Yunus, the United Nations is more than just a global platform—it is a “second home.”

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Dr Yunus at UNGA 2024: A pivotal moment for Bangladesh's trade diplomacy

Photo: REUTERS

For Dr Muhammad Yunus, the United Nations is more than just a global platform—it is a "second home." Over the decades, he has been a frequent presence at the UN, advocating for social business, poverty eradication and inclusive development. The UN's endorsement of his work, including his role as a key voice in the fight against global inequality, solidifies his profound connection with this multilateral body. As head of Bangladesh's interim government, his return to the UN General Assembly (UNGA) stage feels like a natural continuation of his lifelong mission, bringing his vision for a more equitable world to the forefront of global diplomacy.

In recent years, Bangladesh's diplomatic efforts have often been characterised by symbolic gestures, such as "hilsa diplomacy," where the export of the prized fish to neighboring countries like India served as a goodwill token. Similarly, "mango diplomacy," which involved gifting the country's famous sweet mangoes to foreign dignitaries, aimed to foster friendly ties. While these gestures contribute to soft power, Bangladesh now needs to pivot toward more pragmatic and results-driven trade diplomacy.

This UNGA provides a well-timed platform for Bangladesh to rectify the recent borderline diplomatic demarche on alleged "megaphone diplomacy," where public pronouncements have been seen as taking precedence over bilateral diplomatic negotiations. Additionally, strategic engagement on its sidelines offers an opportunity for spot-on bilateral or multilateral discussions as to the emerging "exile diplomacy" or "asylum diplomacy." The talks could highlight the involvement of neighbouring power in facilitating exiled leaders to partake in a form of pre-empted "reverse megaphone diplomacy."

Similarly, Bangladesh can remain open to "track II diplomacy" to address regional conflicts or disputes. It could facilitate more effective negotiations, which are also beneficial to mutual trade, by involving academics, think tanks, and NGOs in discussions with neighbouring countries like India and Myanmar on sensitive topics. Additionally, through "humanitarian diplomacy," particularly by providing critical support during crises like the Rohingya situation—where it has already played a prominent role by hosting refugees and seeking international assistance—Bangladesh strengthens its position on the global stage.

Bangladesh can further promote the sustainable use of ocean resources through "blue economy diplomacy" by building partnerships focused on maritime security, sustainable fisheries, and ocean resource management, thus establishing itself as a leader in harnessing the Bay of Bengal's potential while preserving ecological balance. Additionally, through "green trade diplomacy," Bangladesh should strive to lead in sustainable production by implementing green manufacturing practices, especially in the RMG sector, and strengthening collaborations with EU countries such as Sweden, Denmark, and Germany, pioneering green technology to enhance its green production capabilities.

Bangladesh's potential to strengthen its international economic position is immense given the global economic shifts and opportunities for near-shoring or friend-shoring and diversified trade relations, albeit its economic landscape is undergoing significant transformation. Just as African nations effectively utilised UN platforms and strategic partnerships to secure and advance the African Continental Free Trade Area, Bangladesh now has a valuable opportunity to similarly leverage the UNGA to invigorate South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, address the longstanding challenges and set the stage for enhanced regional cooperation and economic growth.

The recent postponement of EU-Bangladesh partnership agreement negotiations also highlights the need for renewed engagement to resume these stalled discussions. It offers a strategic chance to address outstanding or unresolved issues, such as strengthening current trade relations and negotiating future post-LDC Generalised Scheme of Preferences Plus (GSP+). This is crucial for preserving the competitiveness of Bangladeshi garment products, particularly in light of its impending safeguard measures. Additionally, it offers a scope to help diversify our export basket beyond the RMG sector, which has driven the country's economic growth but also poses risks due to over-reliance.

Through sideline meetings, Bangladesh can actively advocate for potential trade deals, such as Free Trade Agreements and Preferential Trade Agreements, to stimulate growth in key sectors like apparel, pharmaceuticals, leather goods, and information technology. Strengthening connections with emerging markets in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East can further enhance these efforts. For instance, the Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement between India and the UAE illustrates how successful collaborations can flourish through diverse dialogue platforms.

Similarly, France has established strong trade connections with African nations through initiatives like the Francophonie Summit, while Spain leverages its tourism sector to strengthen trade relations through platforms like FITUR (International Tourism Fair). India's Act East Policy also exemplifies effective enhancement of trade relations with Southeast Asian countries via various bilateral agreements. To further its digital trade capabilities, Bangladesh should pursue e-commerce agreements with leading ASEAN and Nordic countries, to improve its digital infrastructure, strengthen fintech initiatives, and implement robust cybersecurity measures, which would attract foreign investment and boost digital exports.

The sidelines of UNGA 2024 offer a crucial opportunity for Bangladesh to enhance its trade diplomacy and safeguard its economic future. By focusing on key sectors, Bangladesh can effectively position itself for a successful transition from LDC status.

Dr Iftekhar Ul Karim is adjunct assistant professor at ZNRF University of Management Sciences.​

 

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Bangladesh after revolution: Yunus envisions a new nation

Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus saw the trajectory of his life change after student-led protests this summer resulted in his installation as the interim leader of Bangladesh

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Bangladesh after revolution: Yunus envisions a new nation
Yunus to address UNGA

File photo

Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus saw the trajectory of his life change after student-led protests this summer resulted in his installation as the interim leader of Bangladesh.

Autocratic former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina fled to India in early August, as tens of thousands of demonstrators stormed her residence protesting against her leadership and a job quota system that favored certain groups.

Yunus saw these events unfolding from about 5,000 miles away in Paris, where he was attending the summer Olympics. Back then, he still faced possible jail time in Bangladesh on embezzlement charges, which he alleged was Hasina's political prosecution.

But hours after Hasina's ouster on Aug. 5, Yunus received a phone call. He was asked to serve as special advisor to the interim government. It was a "very strange turn of events," he told NPR's Morning Edition on Sept. 27 in New York City.

A 2006 Nobel Laureate, Yunus is known for founding Grameen Bank and pioneering small loans for low income people as a way to fight poverty. When he was mired in legal trouble at home, world leaders from Barack Obama to former U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon expressed solidarity.

After Yunus spoke at the UN General Assembly, he sat down with NPR's Michel Martin.

The following interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Michel Martin: When we talked this past summer, you were on trial on corruption charges, and now here you are representing Bangladesh on the world stage. That is some turn of events. Are you surprised to find yourself in this position?

Muhammad Yunus: A very strange turn of events. Before I was sworn in as a chief adviser, I was in Paris trying to see if I go back, I'll be arrested, because she will be angry at me and put me in jail. So I was thinking of delaying my return. And suddenly I got a phone call from Bangladesh that now she has left. We want you to be the head of the government. That was a big surprise.

Martin: What went through your mind when you got that phone call?

Yunus: Whether I should get involved in running the country at all. It's a very difficult political situation. But when the students called me up and explained what the situation is, finally I said, "Yes, you have given lives for this. If you can give lives, I can remove all my other considerations. I can be of your service. I'll do that."

Martin: And when you say you've given life, you were not exaggerating and it was not a metaphor.

Yunus: No, it's not a metaphor. People die. Nearly a thousand young people died, stood in front of the gun to take bullets. Literally, young people came and sacrificed themselves. When they are coming out of their homes to join the demonstrations, they're saying goodbye to their parents. They're saying goodbye to their siblings; 'I may not come back.' That's the spirit in which the whole thing happened. And finally, it was so unbelievable. The Prime Minister decides to leave the country because the whole mob is coming towards her home.

Martin: On the one hand, these demonstrations led to the departure of this wildly unpopular and by some accounts corrupt leader. But in those chaotic first days, there were attacks against Ahmadis and Hindus. Some of it was related to their loyalty to Sheikh Hasina's party. Some of it seemed to be just simply attacks against minorities. Those have subsided. But since then, there have been more attacks, this time on Sufi mosques, and according to our reporting, there has been more than 20 vigilante killings, murders by mobs of people since she was ousted. Why is this happening?

Yunus: People are in the mood for revolution. So this is a revolutionary situation. They were killed. So they are looking for people who made their colleagues die. So people were attacking the followers of the party headed by Sheikh Hasina. When you say minority community being attacked, that minority community, particularly Hindu community, was associated with her. So you cannot distinguish whether they were attacked because they're followers of Sheikh Hasina or they were attacked because they are Hindu. But they were attacked, that's for sure. But then we took over the government and tried to bring peace. I kept telling everybody that we may have differences of opinion. That doesn't mean we have to attack each other.

Martin: Do you think that you can redirect people to focus on reform rather than revenge?

Yunus: Revenge period was only a couple of weeks maybe. But then normalcy started coming back so we are running the country. But there are demonstrations, not revenge demonstrations. Most of the demonstrations are about demanding their pay rises, demanding their jobs, which they were fired from before by the regime. So they said, we are mistreated by the past government and we lost our jobs for nothing – because we happened to belong to another political party. So everybody is trying to settle their scores because they were deprived. We were trying to convince them. Look this is 15 years of your grievances. We cannot solve it in 15 days. Give us some time so that we can go back. You have a very difficult situation and we have to resolve it so that it's done systematically.

Martin: Speaking of time, the army is behind you. Military leaders have said the interim government should rule for 18 months. That's not what the opposition parties wanted. They wanted elections in November. Is 18 months enough time to do what you need to do?

Yunus: People are throwing out these numbers. How many months, how many years as they feel are needed. Some say it should be done quickly because if you go longer and longer, you'll be so unpopular and everything will be messed up. Some say no, you have to finish the reform. So you stay this long period because we don't want to get to Bangladesh 2.0 without fixing everything. So this is the debate going on.

Martin: You know, it's almost like you're talking about an entire rebuilding of civil society.

Yunus: That's precisely what version 2 means. We don't want to go back to the old style. Then what is the meaning of giving all these lives? It has no meaning because everything that we did, we destroyed everything. So we have to begin to build a new one.

Martin: You know, it's challenging, but it also is exciting isn't it?

Yunus: It's very exciting. You look at the negative. I look at it in a very positive way. I said this is the greatest opportunity this nation got. Never, ever, all these people, the country is unified on one thing: We need change

Martin: You are 84. And I don't know that you ever saw yourself as a head of government, as a head of state. Do you think that you will see Bangladesh become the country that you hope it will be in your lifetime?

Yunus: Not the ultimate. But I will be very happy, it's on the way. Institutions are right. Policies are right. Young people are committed to change the world that they belong to and they play a role within the country and a global role. When we talk about climate change, we are the victims of climate change. But we have to work together. I always give importance to the youth because they are the ones who will be building the future and they should be in the leadership position anyway, because this is the planet they have to inherit. You mentioned I'm 84. I don't have a long part ahead of me, but they have their whole life ahead of them.​

 

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Yunus's visit to UNGA a 'tour de force': Michael Kugelman

In an exclusive email interview with The Daily Star, Kugelman discussed the significance of Yunus's trip and its potential impact on Bangladesh's diplomacy, economy, and humanitarian challenges

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Yunus's visit to UNGA a 'tour de force': Michael Kugelman

In an exclusive email interview with The Daily Star, Michael Kugelman, director of the South Asia Institute at the Wilson Centre, shared his views on the recent visit of Chief Adviser Professor Muhammad Yunus to New York.

During the visit, Yunus attended the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) and held several high-profile meetings.

Kugelman discussed the significance of this trip and its potential impact on Bangladesh's diplomacy, economy, and humanitarian challenges.

TDS: What's your assessment about Professor Muhammad Yunus's visit to the UNGA and his performance?

Michael Kugelman: It was a tour de force. He secured meetings with some of the most powerful people in the world—world leaders, top business executives, major donors. And given his celebrity status, many of these folks likely sought him out, and not the other way around. But most importantly, they pledged support to him and his country. He achieved his core objective of putting his country's need for economic, development, and humanitarian support on the global agenda—an agenda already crowded with so many issues, including wars and humanitarian crises.

TDS: Will his visit bring about any real change in Bangladesh and its relations with foreign countries?

Michael Kugelman: Yunus's visit to New York was a success from a public diplomacy standpoint. But for it to also be a policy success, his government will need to be in constant follow-up mode, reconnecting with all those leaders and organisations that pledged support to move forward on next steps. As much as the international community may respect Yunus, it'll need more pushes from his government.

TDS: How do you think his meetings with the heads of the WB, IMF, EU, UN and USAID administrator will help boost Bangladesh's economy and reforms?

Michael Kugelman: The meetings have injected momentum into efforts to secure international assistance for Bangladesh's many challenges. In cases where there are formal new agreements for support, as is the case with USAID, it's just a matter of implementation. But with some of these other entities, there will have to be ample follow-up that will fall to Yunus's team, and especially his foreign affairs and economic advisers. Yunus's star power, and the respect he commands on the global stage, will help Bangladesh's cause. But with so many donors needs and priorities, it won't take much to get diverted. That's why the follow-up from Dhaka is so essential.

TDS: Do you think that Bangladesh's Rohingya policy will change with Muhammad Yunus being the head of the interim government? Why or why not?

Michael Kugelman: I suspect we will see less of a push for repatriation and more of a focus on relocation to third countries. One of Yunus's goals in New York was to bring attention to the Rohingya crisis, with the hope of convincing more countries to help take them in. It will admittedly be a hard sell. But with more Rohingya entering Bangladesh, thereby placing an added burden on managing the massive number already there, Yunus will have a strong incentive to identify additional host countries to ease Bangladesh's burden.​

 

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Bangladesh at UNGA 2024: Glitter, gold, and ground reality

Bangladesh desperately needed global attention to reap gold out of this moment of change.

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Bangladesh at UNGA 2024: Glitter, gold, and ground reality

Bangladesh Chief Adviser Muhammad Yunus addresses the 79th United Nations General Assembly at the UN headquarters in New York, US on September 27, 2024. PHOTO: REUTERS

When I first heard of the 2024 United Nations General Assembly theme, the picture of Abu Sayeed's final action in Rangpur flashed through my mind. The theme is simply "Leaving no one behind." It requires "acting together for the advancement of peace, sustainable development and human dignity for present and future generations." Bangladesh Chief Adviser Prof Muhammad Yunus befittingly completed that picture.

Historians may characterise Yunus's visit as the second most auspicious moment for the country in this august body. Entrusted with the duty to execute and institutionalise widespread reforms to essentially rebuild Bangladesh, Prof Yunus's presence rekindled the first Bangladeshi presence: when the country was admitted in 1974. At that time, Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman declared "Friendship to all, malice to none" as the country's foreign policy orientation. At no other time has Bangladesh needed that approach more than right now.

Yunus made Upper Manhattan East Riverside glitter last week. US President Joe Biden dropped out of the US presidential election in July because vox populi thought him to be too old, but Yunus put the youth back in him. As the chirpier, younger octogenarian, Biden canoodled Yunus. Interestingly, the World Bank was doing the same to Bangladesh, first with economical support, then by opening legal windows to recuperate money looted by disgraced businessmen and former ministers and parliamentarians. Unsurprisingly, the IMF loan package window also widened.

That was not all. From the north of New York, Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau exuberantly sought deeper bilateral relations, and from the south of the US, Brazil's avowed socialist President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva was enthusiastic to meet another "Global South" compadre and share a kindred spirit. He had preserved that for the previous prime minister's maiden visit to Brazil, but no love was lost when she cancelled it in late July.

Two previous US presidents awaited Yunus: Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The former first tasted microfinance magic as the governor of Arkansas in the 1980s, which prompted his Bangladesh visit in March 2000. Last week, he honoured Yunus as a family friend at a Clinton Global Initiative event. Obama is a fellow Nobel Peace Prize winner. Even Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris scheduled a private breakfast. Across the Atlantic, Yunus's advent energised British anti-money-laundering measures against ill-gotten Bangladeshi property holders, while Europe's most ebullient and charismatic populist leader, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and Yunus discussed their own "art of triumph" experiences.

Clearly, Yunus broke no boundaries. Bangabandhu would have been proud of him in a way his daughter was not. Is there mileage in that difference? The contexts differed, for one: baptised globally by the ideologically-driven Non-Aligned Movement in 1973, Bangabandhu kept a distance from geopolitics, but in true Caesarian style, Sheikh Hasina "came, saw, and conquered" everything, which, in a more materialistic age, meant making the sky the limit.

But is every glitter golden? After all, one key figure stayed aloof. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi may have his grudges, but India cannot function coherently without its only real friend in South Asia, just as Bangladesh cannot do without India. Hasina's return is not presently visible, but Bangladesh-India relations cannot but warm once the hiccups and speed bumps subside. Honestly assessing Bangladesh's status shows problems flooding its perimeter, within our own backyard, neighbourhood and region. Divorcing them from an even larger global setting merely truncates the very umbilical cord of possible solutions.

Bangladesh desperately needed global attention to reap gold out of this moment of change. Today's Bangladesh is not one of only surviving, but also growing. The fact that Bangladesh can actually grow from this can be reduced to at least three 1970s forces: microfinance, because of Yunus and Fazle Hasan Abed's talent; the millions of abjectly poor low-wage migrants remitting billions from menial, dangerous work abroad; and the money-minting RMG industry for employing penniless people and funnelling landless farmers into urban factories.

Economic growth outpaced social development, distorted politics, and ultimately plagued Rabindranath Tagore's Sonar Bangla environment. Three consecutive 15-year dynamics divided a homogeneous population: military rule; two political parties emasculating democracy from 1991; and then a popularly elected prime minister imposing totalitarian rule. The consequences were apparent: too many Bangladeshis were left behind or rather left out. So, fulfilling the UN's "Leaving no one behind" theme, Bangladesh must firstly inform the world what we have learnt from past mistakes; institutionalise, rather than verbalise, the desired changes; and flatten the playing field politically.

The most taxing but pivotal will be the third. It requires refitting the country's most veteran and historically venerable political party, the Awami League, into mainstream politics. Preventing that will only cement the zero sum mindset that revolution and the UN 2024 theme seek to eliminate. Accommodating that demonstrates Bangladeshi maturity: sharply opposed politicians shaking hands instead of shooting each other, and negotiating at the table rather than through disruptive streetside showdowns.

Central to these is the youth. Positioned differently than previous young generations because of greater social media access and greater accumulation of lost hopes, today's youthful clamour is from the only place left: the tipping point. Resistance is inherent, but common bonding has never looked more promising.

Democracy also softens geopolitical indulgences. Especially now as the world recovers from the first pandemic in a century, it faces the most vicious populist atmosphere in a century, and stands on the brink of an economic crisis reminiscent of the 1930s. Fascism, Nazism, religious fundamentalism, market crashes, and machismo stare us in the eye. Can we still win?

What must Bangladesh do? Our resources limit us to only tackle problems nationally (institutionalise both democracy and sustainable development in one of the world's most vulnerable climate change victims), neighbourly (with both India and Myanmar), and regionally (both the Bay of Bengal and South Asia, this time with both India and Pakistan on an even keel).

Nationally, with sine qua non democracy, Awami League's participation is key: not all its members loot or abuse the principles of the country. So, invite them. Regarding tense relationships with the neighbours, tame common rivers, resume bilateral economic projects, harmonise growing indigenous unhappiness, and reassure the hapless Rohingya that they, too, won't be left behind. Regionally, revive SAFTA and SAARC to build South Asian identity, bridge Southeast Asian countries through BIMSTEC, and protect the common South/Southeast Asian life support, the Bay.

Global partnership helps on each of these fronts, just as containing corrosive global forces from penetrating local borders becomes our responsibility, too. Sudden surges like displaced Rakhine dwellers, money launderers, sex traffickers, smugglers and jihadists on the one hand, and surging ocean levels, salinity invading fertile farmlands, deforestation, and ignoring upstream river-dumps building a plastic paradise on the other, need urgent remedy. Drilling the Bay for fuel is insensible when solar/wind alternatives to fossil fuels promise more. Tossed plastics and dumped chemicals are worse. They boomerang on our own health through intoxicated fish consumption. Plenty on our plate need better dispensation. That's a people's job, not a politician's.

Only by holding hands with those around us can these be irreversibly tackled. Bhutan is our intimate backseat sedan co-traveller, India an umbilical partner, Myanmar too similarly conjoined, Nepal another backseat cohort, Pakistan a split sibling, and Sri Lanka the third backseat pal. Universally, caretaking means to pave the road towards meaningful democracy, but institutionalising that democracy is a parliamentarian obligation. Both go together, but both only get together if the concept of leaving no one behind becomes the common denominator. That was the most enlightening lesson for Bangladesh at the UNGA. It exposed the widest range of countries volunteering their warmth to steady our ship, a rare opportunity window in an age of diminishing warmth. It's now or never.

Dr Imtiaz A Hussain is professor at the Department of Global Studies and Governance (GSG) of Independent University, Bangladesh (IUB).​

 

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Chief Adviser Yunus's UNGA trip a critical turning point

Now is the best chance for Bangladesh to strengthen international cooperation.

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Chief Adviser Yunus's UNGA trip a critical turning point
Now is the best chance for Bangladesh to strengthen international cooperation

With Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus heading the interim government, Bangladesh right now enjoys a global goodwill that is both unprecedented and crucial. FILE PHOTO: REUTERS

Prof Muhammad Yunus's presence at the UN General Assembly last month, and more importantly at events on the sidelines, marks a new and significant shift in Bangladesh's global relations. His meetings with US President Joe Biden, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Netherlands Prime Minister Dick Schoof, European Commission President Ursula Von der Leyen, many heads of governments from South Asia except the Indian prime minister and Sri Lankan president (the latter because he did not come), US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, and many other world figures indicate a dramatic turnaround in Bangladesh's place in the world.

The chiefs of multilateral lenders such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF), and Asian Development Bank (ADB) have also agreed to fast-track their assistance and take a deeper look into how to assist us more effectively at this critical juncture. USAID has also shown a renewed interest in Bangladesh and has already extended a loan of $200 million. This is a significant improvement of our relations with global lenders.

To have a Nobel laureate as the head of government is quite in contrast to our past leaders, some of whom were military dictators or power-hungry politicians. Prof Yunus brings in a new and fresh sense of dignity not only to Bangladesh, but to the leadership of the developing world in general. The last such leader was Nelson Mandela. Prof Yunus did not spend 27 years of his life in prison or suffer the lifelong oppression and indignity of living under apartheid. He, on his part, spent his whole life serving the poor and trying to pull them out of poverty through his micro-credit scheme, with women at the centre of change. His model is now being replicated in many developing countries and some developed ones as well, including the US, where replication of the Grameen model is making a significant impact on the poor, especially urban.

The geopolitical implications of Bangladesh's newfound place on the global stage is shrouded in many uncertainties. Euphoria aside, how confident can we feel about the durability of Bangladesh's new closeness with the US, which is with the Biden administration whose tenure ends in January? How strong is Prof Yunus's appeal with the Republicans? Will the friendship survive a Republican election victory? If Vice-President Kamala Harris does not win, much of our expected gains from the US support may fall by the wayside. But, of course, the other results of the visit need not be bound by the same.

How Bangladesh's immediate neighbour India and not so distant neighbour China will deal with the new reality here is something that we need to follow very carefully.

Dhaka formally requested to New Delhi for a meeting between the Bangladesh chief adviser and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the 79th session of the UNGA. It could not happen due to the mismatch in their travelling dates. This resulted in the unexpected situation of our leader meeting the president of Maldives and prime ministers of Nepal and Pakistan, but not the leader of our most important neighbour, India. The meeting between our Foreign Affairs Adviser Md Touhid Hossain and his Indian counterpart S Jaishankar seemed to have gone well on the face of it, but how meaningful it really was, only time will tell.

The collapse of Sheikh Hasina's government profoundly shocked India. It has not yet been able to fully assess what to make of the changes and understand its profundity. As reported by its media, from the outset, India got carried away with the view that foreign hands were behind the July uprising and that it was either the CIA or Pakistan's ISI or both that were behind what occurred. This prevented the Indian policymakers from understanding and then accepting the reality that the government that it was patronising in Bangladesh and whose election manipulation it knowingly overlooked had really lost its footing and had suffered a total loss of public support. To attribute the whole July uprising as nothing but the work of outsiders and to not see the massive mass participation and obvious popularity of the transformation amounted to India totally not seeing the ground reality and missing out on any realistic assessment of what had happened. This, in my view, has prevented Indian policymakers from making a fact-based reality check. The subsequent spread of "anti-Indianism" in Bangladesh may have further consolidated India's view.

Whatever we say about the policymakers, the important keys of bilateral relations are ultimately held by the bureaucrats with occasional reaching out to think tanks and experts. For bureaucrats, to acknowledge that they failed to see the deep and widespread unpopularity of the Hasina regime is to admit their massive failure and incredible incompetence. That the bureaucrats—anywhere in the world, including in our own country—will never do. Hence, finding "facts" that are tenuous and "logic" that are contrived have become the main contributors to India's "understanding" of the new reality.

It has been my privilege to be interviewed by more than half a dozen important Indian media outlets on the recent developments. What deeply surprised and disappointed me was how casually they accepted whatever appeared on social media and presented that as facts in the interviews. They literally made no effort to check the story. I didn't mention the verification done by The Daily Star but used the results of fact-checking done by BBC to challenge their contentions. They believed what they wanted to and not what really happened.

India needs to deeply introspect about its relations with Bangladesh—maybe with others in the region, too—and recalibrate a genuinely win-win way forward. The recent remarks of India's Home Minister Amit Shah that "every infiltrator will be hanged upside down," meaning mainly Bangladeshis, will only alienate India further and cause internal divisions also. We, on our side, must realise that relations with India cannot be left to populism and that sweeping anti-Indianism will not get us to our desired goal of a balanced, mutually beneficial relationship that will drive advancement and regional peace and stability.

The meeting between our chief adviser and the prime minister of Pakistan and the sudden opening up with the country surprised many. This paper is in favour of normalising relations with Pakistan, but not without an acknowledgement and apology for the genocide that they conducted in 1971. If South Korea and China could extract apology for the Japanese atrocities in World War II, what is wrong with us demanding the same from Pakistan?

China has been very realistic and reached out—though the Chinese support that Sheikh Hasina enjoyed was well-known—to the new setup early and has consolidated it through the meeting between the Chinese foreign minister and Prof Yunus in New York.

Compared to where we were, what Prof Yunus has achieved in the international arena so far is a miracle. At the moment, Bangladesh enjoys a global goodwill that is both unprecedented and crucial. It is an opportunity that we cannot allow to slip through our fingers. Our foreign office needs to become sharper and faster, and equip itself more with expanded knowledge and quick training. We have a competent adviser who, we expect, will reach out to the academics, think tanks and the media—which he has not done yet sufficiently—to strengthen the process of linking ourselves to the world, especially our trading partners, and bring home the gains that the new opportunities offer.

Mahfuz Anam is the editor and publisher of The Daily Star.​

 

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Instead of jail, I went to take oath at Bangabhaban

Our emphasis is on reforms, Dr Muhammad Yunus said in the interview. If we are to carry out reforms, we have to do this speedily. We do not have the scope to carry out reforms in a slow and steady manner. So we have to start the reforms from now

en.prothomalo.com

Interview: Dr Muhammad Yunus (Part 1)
Instead of jail, I went to take oath at Bangabhaban

Chief adviser Dr Muhammad Yunus spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh in an exclusive interview with Prothom Alo

After the student-people's uprising, Nobel laureate Professor Dr Muhammad Yunus took over responsibility as chief advisor of Bangladesh's interim government. At the request of the students, he took up this responsibility at a time of unprecedented political change. In an interview with Prothom Alo's editor Matiur Rahman and diplomatic correspondent Raheed Ejaz, this eminent economist spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh, materialising these dream through reforms in certain important sectors, a transition to democracy and the prevailing state of affairs.

Prothom Alo: Greetings, Dr Muhammad Yunus. It's hardly been two months since you took responsibility as chief advisor of the interim government. It's a totally new time, totally new responsibility, perhaps something you hadn't imagined before. How does this responsibility feel? How are you?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I am well, quite well. This is a new responsibility, and a big responsibility. I am actively endeavouring to build up the capacity to carry out this responsibility suddenly bestowed upon me.

Prothom Alo : We are all aware that for the past two decades you were subject to all sorts of humiliation. There was the rigmarole of rushing from one corridor to the other in the courts. There was even the derisive comment of dipping you into the river Padma. You could have even gone to jail. In fact, you well could have been behind bars at this moment. But suddenly everything changed. Now it is you who are lending leadership to running the state. This is an astounding and astonishing change. Had you even imagined this could have happened?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: This is a completely new experience. I was just preparing to go to jail two days before all this. I had been going from court to court. Then all of a suddenly, instead of going to jail I was taking oath in Bangabhaban. Quite a surprisingly reverse scenario. Similar appeals to take responsibility of the government had been made to me in the past. I had asked to be excused and turned down the offer every time. I never really seriously thought that I would have to take responsibility. But this time it was a completely different scenario. That is why I took up this responsibility.

Prothom Alo: How did you get involved in this colossal change? How did contact between you and the students come about? At what phase did you give your assent?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I had had no contact with the student leaders. I was seeing them on the television news. I was viewing it like the movements that take place time and again. I was out of the country when the movement was deepening. I was carrying out a certain responsibility in the Paris Olympics. I was involved in its designing. It was then that the movement had reached a height. A road in Paris was named after me then at that time and I inaugurated it. So I was looking at things there, looking at things here, from afar.

Those from my office who would keep in contact with me were saying, Sir, don't come back now. Things aren't looking good. They will probably send you to jail. So keep away now. We are keeping an eye on things and will tell you when the time is right to return. I had accordingly decided to go Berlin, and then Rome and then Brazil, and so on. It had never occurred to me that I would be returning to the country and be taking up such a responsibility. Then one of the students told my office he wanted to speak with me. That was the first time I had heard from the students. I wanted to know what they wanted to speak about. I was told that I would have to take responsibility of the government. I said, that is quite another matter. I asked whether they had spoken to him and they said they had. So I say, all right, I will talk too, let's see what they have to say. I tried to convince them not to give me this responsibility. I had already distanced myself from such a responsibility. It would not be right to take this up. I said, search for someone else who is suitable. They said, no Sir, there is no one else. You must take on this responsibility. I told them again, look around. After you look around, then let me know how things stand. He said, okay Sir, we will let you know tomorrow. He called again the next day and said, Sir, there is no other way. You must come. You must take up this duty. You must come immediately. I told them that I was in hospital and would not be able to come so fast. I will consult the physician and see what he said. However, I said, since you have sacrificed so many lives and are saying that I must take the responsibility, no matter what reservations I may have, I acquiesce to your request. But I need to consult with the physician first to let you know when I can come. He said, no Sir, you have to come soon. So I spoke to the physician at the hospital. The physician said, you are supposed to stay in hospital tomorrow too. I will see if I can get you released tomorrow. The next day when I woke up in the morning, the physician said, you may leave now if you want. The doctor released me and I returned to the country.

Prothom Alo : You took this decision. Did you have a chance to consult with anyone else, other than the student leaders?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not even know who else there is. I had no idea of anything.


Prothom Alo: Your relationship with the student leaders...

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not have any sort of relation with them. I did not know who they were. I first saw them only after I returned to Dhaka. They were at the airport. That's when I was introduced to them.

Prothom Alo : You took over responsibility of the country two months ago at a critical juncture. It was an eventful time. How would you evaluate this span of time, the July-August period, your return and taking over responsibility?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Things happened so fast. I returned and took oath that very night. Everything was topsy-turvy. I was supposed to go to jail upon my return, instead things took quite a different turn! What was to be done? Who were these persons? Who will be at the swearing in? Everything was new! It was a whole new scenario. But still, I thought since they asked me to take responsibility, since I agreed, I would carry out my responsibility accordingly. Thus I embarked on this journey in an unknown world with unknown associates.

Prothom Alo: You were an advisor in the 1996 caretaker government. After that you have had no opportunity to visit Bangabhaban or Ganabhaban. Or did you?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I went when governments other than Awami League were in power. They invited me. I was even invited to the swearing in of Awami League's first government. And I attended that too.

Prothom Alo : You attended the United General Assembly session this time too. On a departure from the norms, you had a meeting with Joe Biden too. And then Clinton. Then then many heads of state. You had meetings with the heads of the European Union, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund. We noted a lot of interest and enthusiasm about the changes in Bangladesh and also about you. Your presence, your identity made a big difference. You met many old friends. You took part in many events. On the whole, what sort of response did you receive regarding the new Bangladesh?

Dr. Muhammad Yunus: Everyone was enthusiastic. Hope sprung up that this country would be able to rise up again. They hadn't been too pleased with what they had been observing in the country. Now that I was in front of them, they expressed their enthusiasm about the change. I knew many of them, they were friends and acquaintances. I was very close to many of them. So they were pleased to have me there. They expressed their happiness in so many ways.
I held official meetings. But the official meetings turned into a meeting of friends. They said, what do you need? We will arrange things accordingly. They really took me to be one of them. Many of the officials knew me because I was involved in several organisations. They received me in that manner, very eagerly. They were eager to know what support and cooperation they could extend us in the changed circumstances. I made it very clear too that it wouldn't do to view things same as before. A new situation had arisen and this called for a new way of thinking. Old calculations would have to be discarded. We made to take a big jump. It won't do to have so many conditionalities as before. I stressed this point with whomever I held meetings and they appreciated it. In fact, one of them made a phone call right from there, issuing instructions: Do this right now.

We were talking and directives were being sent out too. I felt hugely encouraged. I said, it won't be enough just to step up the funds, but things must be speeded up too... if we sign an agreement, it takes years for the funds to come through and then it comes to no use. I said we need things speedily. This change needs immediate changes. So make all the formalities concise so we can set to task immediately. Everyone appreciated that and said, we understand. We will make sure things are done speedily.

Prothom Alo: They carried things out fast. You will also have to see that things are carried out here in the country. That is why the initiatives you have taken for reforms are vital.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Definitely. Our emphasis is on reforms. If we are to carry out reforms, we have to do this speedily. We do not have the scope to carry out reforms in a slow and steady manner. So we have to start the reforms from now. We are starting work from a devastated structure.

Prothom Alo : That is the point I was about to make. From the outside, you did not know so much about the inside of the country. You just knew in general about the wrongdoings, the injustices, the corruption, the politicisation. So once you took responsibility, what did you see?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: A completely broken-down state of affairs. Nothing was functioning. There was an administrative structure, everything aimed at the veneration of one individual. Everything was in place to follow that one individual's orders, to fulfill that individual's wishes. They were not bothered about the demands of the state. So we had to start off with a disjointed and crumbling public administration.

Prothom Alo : So it's a tough journey that you have embarked upon...

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Extremely tough.

Prothom Alo: Did you anticipate this before you came to this position?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Once we entered, it was clear. Earlier it was evident, but in a hazy manner. From outside it is hard to comprehend the extent of the damage within. There are so many things to understand, why certain orders were issued, what was done, how the funds were spent, why the contracts were signed, and so on. How was the money distributed? It was a free-for-all, take whatever you can, this was the chance. That was how things were running. Now we have to bring order to that situation, there is no other alternative. It is a difficult task to clear all this up.

Prothom Alo : It is difficult and also requires time. When you arrived at the airport on 8 August this year, you said your first task was to restore law and order, to normalise the situation. How successful have you been?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: We are trying. We have not been successful as yet. Law and order is not completely back to normal as yet. I do not want to go into explanations, but things haven't improved that much. They may have improved to an extent, but not to the level required. So our utmost effort will be to stabilise that. That is our primary task. Unless that is done, we can't carry out the rest of the tasks.

Prothom Alo: The task is certainly not that easy. The police force has broken down. How can you reassure the people? Is the administration cooperating?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: There is cooperation from the top levels, but we hear of speculations about secret things going on. We are not placing must importance on that. As we weren't getting complete service from the police, we requested the armed forces to come forward. They did. Then they said we do not have the scope to work. That is when the question of providing them with magistracy powers arose. I agreed. Initially we have given them magistracy powers for two months so that they can take up the task.

Prothom Alo : Is two months adequate?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: We thought we'll initially provide this for two months and then see how things proceed. If we see this is working out, then we will extend it. We hope they will agree. But these two months are experimental. There are all sorts of worries too. We don't want this to be a misuse of power. If one person accidently misuses his authority, there is no use in blaming the army. If a member of the army, an officer, does this, the disrepute falls upon the entire army. It will befall us too, people will question this decision of ours. We want to see if things are carried out well.

To be continued..................​

 

[Saif]

Prothom Alo : You are working with the council of advisors now. How is work progressing? Are you satisfied?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: It depends on what you are expecting. The government is a huge machine. We are trying to start up the machine. We are putting it into first gear first to see if it works. If it moves, we go into second gear. Then third gear. That's how it is. We can't just go into third gear and speed off at the outset. We are having to adjust our speed. We have to see how fast we can go into first gear and start off at five or six miles per hour, then speed up to 20 to 22 miles per hour. Then we can go full throttle. But we can't take too much time either. We have to set to work. There is a lot of work, endless work.

Prothom Alo: You talk about speed. The people have expectations to see some visible initiative, to see and understand the speed. That is how things stand. There are mixed reactions among the people.
Dr Muhammad Yunus: We have mixed reactions too. We are not too happy with things either. No one wants to proceed in fits and starts. Our effort is to start things as fast as possible and proceed at a normal speed.

Prothom Alo : But reality is that it is not possible to resolve so many accumulated problems overnight. But people just want to see your efforts.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: There are good things. Everyone is saying good things are happening in the banking sector. Then again, they say that there are problems in the share market. One thing goes well, another thing doesn't. We fix one thing and another thing slumps. We have to carry out the actual tasks amid all this. Everything has to be brought to order. The universities had come to a standstill. Those must be functioning, VCs appointed. There are endless tasks. Wherever you look, there is a vacuum. Mammoth work to be done. And speed must be generated. The thing is to start work.

Prothom Alo : Will you take up other initiatives to start up this mammoth machine? Are there going to be new faces in the advisory council? Any new commissions?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I see the commissions differently. There has been talk about taking in new members to activate the machine. No solid decision has been taken. The issue remains open. That is how things stand. But we do not want to expand the size of the advisory council too much. That creates problems too.

Prothom Alo: In the past governments had cabinets of 60 to 70 ministers...
Dr Muhammad Yunus: We are not thinking on those lines. We want to proceed with a small council of advisors. Let's see how far we can manage. The problem is that if the team gets big, there are all sorts of innuendos and it can be difficult to work in cohesion. Then again, there are problems if the team is small. People don't know each other. Fixing a team takes time, it can't be speeded up. There is no dearth of efforts. But it is still not the time to say we have been successful.

Prothom Alo : The coordinators among the students have taken part in running the government, they are in the advisory council too. This is a completely new chapter. How has your experience been?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: One is our experience. One is our perception. I have always said, the world should be left to the youth. They are of a different world. We have held them back. We have held them back with our old thoughts, old perceptions, old structures. The new ones will go ahead with new perceptions, new thoughts, new structures. The way must be left to them. That is why we say that the sooner things can be left to them, the better. Our responsibility is to boost them. That is what I have always said. And now we have that opportunity. They are agreeable and I am agreeable that we will work. No one will be able to say that these two students are in any way less than the other members of the advisory council. They are not weaker than any advisory councils of the past either. They are very alert, very cautious. They work with much deliberation.

Prothom Alo : This is a new concept for our country. It was basically the students who lent leadership to the movements of 1952, 1962, 1969 and 1990. But in the aftermath of those movements, the students did not get the scope to run the country or take it ahead. So this is something absolutely new for us.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: It is new to our country, but in other countries the youth is given responsibility. In some countries the youth are prime ministers. They are prime ministers or presidents at the age of 30 or 35. So there is no reason to sidestep youth.

Prothom Alo : This is not just in this July and August, they have proven themselves in the movements down the years. They have come up with new perceptions, new ideas and new types of leadership.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That's for sure.

Prothom Alo : The 1/11 government is called a military government. The military was involved in the entire process, with a few civilians in the front. The army is with you now, is taking initiative, is working to ensure law and order. This is particularly true of the end days or July and around two weeks of August. They had an effort to take the process to a certain position. Now how do you see the role of the army up till the election? What do you want? What do you think?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: The army understands what I think. The army will play the role of how it should be in a democratic state. They will carry out the directives of the government. That is the model of a democratic state.

If we make those roles questionable at the very outset, then it won't be possible to take democracy ahead. It will end here. Then what is the use of us staying around! Where there is no democracy, there is no role for us.

Prothom Alo : We are seeing something different from 1/11 this time. The army isn't coming ahead. This perhaps is because of their trust and confidence in you. That is a major reason too. And that is how it should be.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I say that too. The army is playing the role that they should in a democratic state and they will continue to do so.

Prothom Alo : Are you getting their cooperation?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: We have had no scope to complain so far. In fact I have been lauding them. I have been applauding them because unless the army came forward in this change that has taken place, there would have been terrible bloodshed. But they came forward. And they kept the students in the forefront. They did not say, move aside, we will take over now. They did not say that.

Prothom Alo : They came amidst a lot of bloodshed. Then they brought things under control. They allowed the process to move forward.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: There could have been more bloodshed had they not stepped in then. It would have been a horrendous situation.

Prothom Alo : Particularly the decision they took on 3 August, not to open fire on the people.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That was a momentous decision.

Prothom Alo: We see that you all have been changing certain decisions. That happens when running a government, and should happen too. There have been reactions among the people about forming committees and then changing these. There are speculations about whether these are weaknesses of the government or lack of coordination. Do you see any such weaknesses?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Different people can see things in different ways. I would say that a strong point of the government is that we fix any mistakes that we may make. We don't stubbornly cling to our stand. It is not that since we are in the government, we will stick to what we have said. We are not doing that. We see that perhaps it would be better to do certain things in a different way, and so we do so. I think this is our strength. We have the power to think holistically. We amend our mistakes. We try to do better. We do what is appropriate.

Prothom Alo : A massive change has taken place. There were opportunities in the past too. There was the fall of Ershad in 1990. There were a few good elections. There was the forming of a caretaker government in 2007, etc. But all said and done, things did not improve. Instead we got an extreme autocratic government. We don't learn. What lesson should we learn this time? How optimistic are you?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I look at it this way. A massive opportunity has come to our nation's life. Such an opportunity has never arisen before, not even in all the examples you just cited. The students have used a beautiful term and that is "reforms". We did not take up such reforms in the past. It was just shifting from one government to another. This time the matter of reforms has arisen and we have brought that to the forefront. That is the main issue.

Reforms are a major issue of this interim government. Anyone can stage elections at any time. There can be elections, these are rigged and power is taken over. But this time it is reforms. Reforms mean we will not allow a repetition of what happened in the past. We may not be able to do so 100 per cent, but as close as possible with the entire nation. And not by brute force. The interim government will not just do things alone, but with everyone. We will ask, what can be done so these things are not repeated in the future? We will explain to everyone, we will ask the political parties to explain what reforms they want. You won't get this chance again. It won't be possible. It won't be possible legally. You can get things done through us. For example, amending the constitution. You won't be able to do so. You can get it done through us. We will do your work for you. We are drawing up a draft for you, to make things easier. You can tear it up and make another one. Give us another one. We will work along with you.

Prothom Alo : What are your objectives 1, 2 and 3 of this reform exercise?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: First is the constitution, a massive task. The constitution must be amended. The judiciary must be amended. You will get all this within a few days. All of the six commissions that we have formed are important. We are coming up with more commissions. Once those come up, you will see we will come up with many issues. There are many things pent up in our minds. You all have written a lot. Just place a paper in front of you and say in consensus how far you want to go. This will go as you determine. Our work is just to facilitate. We have this opportunity now. You all created this opportunity, not us.

Prothom Alo : Given everything you see around you, are you hopeful that you will be able to go far ahead with the commission initiatives along with everyone, including the political parties?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I am 100 per cent optimistic. No matter what people may say, everyone wants reforms. There really is no alternative. You may be able to manage things, but then your children will get stuck. They will have to fall back into this abyss. We have climbed out of this abyss. The destruction from which we have emerged will be created all over again. So the responsibility to correct it is yours. We are just facilitating.​

 

[Saif]

Unite for reforms, this chance won’t come again

We don't want flimsy reforms. We don't want eye-wash reforms. We want fundamental reforms. We will bring about these reforms in such a manner that they cannot be changed

en.prothomalo.com

Interview: Dr Muhammad Yunus (Part 2)
Unite for reforms, this chance won’t come again

Dr. Muhammad Yunus during an interview with Prothom Alo editor Matiur Rahman

After the student-people uprising, Nobel laureate Professor Dr. Muhammad Yunus took over responsibility as chief advisor of Bangladesh’s interim government. At the request of the students, he took up this responsibility at a time of unprecedented political change. In an interview with Prothom Alo’s editor Matiur Rahman and diplomatic correspondent Raheed Ejaz, this eminent economist spoke at length on people’s dreams for a new Bangladesh, materialising these dreams through reforms in certain important sectors, a transition to democracy, and the prevailing state of affairs.

Prothom Alo : Everyone wants justice regarding all the killings that took place during the student-people’s movement. There is also all sorts of talk about trials in this connection. You yourself have also several times said that Sheikh Hasina will be placed on trial. She is presently in India. There is talk of asking for extradition. Do you have plans in this regard?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: We don't need to be a part of this. We are reforming the judicial system. Once the judicial system is reformed, then the issues will come forward, about who will be placed on trial, how justice will be carried out, who will carry out justice, and so on. We are not taking political decisions now. We are just creating the scope. Then you will proceed as you deem befitting. We are just facilitating.

Prothom Alo: But there was a government, a head of government, a cabinet, leaders behind all this injustice and wrongdoings. There are discussions and demands about them…
Dr Muhammad Yunus: That is why they are being caught and arrested, taken to jail. Everything is being done. But we are not placing them on trial. First decide the process on how justice will be brought about and then follow that judicial process.

Prothom Alo : There has been considerable criticism about these arrests and cases. How far are the charges true, or how far can these charges be proven? How far can these cases take the trials ahead? These questions are popping up. Many say that this is just the same as in the past. Like the false cases. And the liability is falling upon you all. You are not being able to shrug off this liability.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That is why judicial reforms are required. It is not as if it can be done just if I say so. That won’t be justice. There are laws for this, but the laws are not good. The laws need to be changed. If we simply made a declaration unilaterally, then we will be going towards autocracy again. We want to advance through a process. It is not as there are no errors in the judicial process. Mistakes are being made. When these mistakes are pointed out, we try to rectify them. You say we change decisions. If our mistakes are pointed out, we then change our decisions accordingly.

If we simply made a declaration unilaterally, then we will be going towards autocracy again

Prothom Alo : In the meantime we see conflict and hatred being spread in the society. There is the matter of mob justice. Many people have even died in such incidents. There is a sort of unrest prevailing. How will you control this?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: This is all about establishing law and order. These are matters of the law and order situation. These are not political matters. The killings and the mob justice are all matters of law and order. If law and order can be strengthened, this will not happen. If we step up social activities, if people take care of each other, then such things won’t happen. The government can’t go and stop the fights. We can say that you will be punished if you fight.
I am repeatedly saying, we are a family. We may have different views, but that doesn’t mean we are enemies. This must be made clear.

Prothom Alo : There is a demand looming large to ban Awami League, not to allow them to carry out political activities, not to allow them to join the election. What will you say about that?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: This too is not for us to decide upon. When the political parties sit and hold meetings, they will take a decision. We will take all political decisions from the political parties. We will act in accordance with their decisions.

Prothom Alo: But you will have a certain stand. Will that come through the commission?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: If the commission deems it will be beneficial for the country, this will be discussed when the matter of elections arise. In other words, that will be placed with the political parties too. They will draw up a draft. It is not that the commission will do it and that is final. The recommendations of the commission will go to the political parties. The political parties will debate among themselves, will discuss and deliberate and decide in which direction we will proceed.

Prothom Alo: Freedom of expression and media freedom are all much-discussed issues. These were impaired in various ways during the last government and before that too. We have faced repression in all sorts of ways. How can you reassure us that in the future press freedom, telling the truth, freedom of expression will continue unhindered?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: You have been able to enter the prime minister’s office after 15 years. The government did not allow you to do so in these 15 years. Approaching the government was like crossing the Himalayas. But that has been crossed now. There are no obstacles for you now. It is up to you when you want to come, when you want to go. We do not control this. I am not the one to dictate who will read Prothom Alo and who will not read Prothom Alo! I do not have the authority to dictate who will advertise in Prothom Alo and who will not advertise in Prothom Alo. Why will we have this authority! Write as you please. Criticise. Unless you write, how will we know what is happening or not happening? We aren’t any know-all that everything is just happening smoothly. If you all speak out, we can be cautious.

Prothom Alo : Then again, there still is the manner of certain laws. There are rules and regulations. There are the old laws which are detrimental to freedom of expression.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That is why we are talking about a media commission. The media commission will point out to us the laws that need to be changed or need to be abrogated. We are not fighting for any laws here. We have no interests involved. We want to ensure that future generations cannot accuse us of creating any obstacles.

Write as you please. Criticise. Unless you write, how will we know what is happening or not happening?

Prothom Alo : A question has been raised as to how long you all will remain at the helm. When will you hold the election? There was mention of one and a half years or two years. Have you had the chance to fix a specific timeline?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: We are discussing this matter among ourselves. Our work is clear cut. This work is preparing for the election. We must start this work. There will be a stream of preparations for the elections. Then there is the work for reforms. These will go hand in hand. These are not separate matters that we will complete one and start the other.

The election preparations will be about the election, when it will be held, what can be done, how far we will go and so on. Then there are reforms. Reforms are pivotal. This election is to establish reforms. So, when the preparations for the election are done, the reforms are organised but not executed, then the question will arise whether you will go for reforms or for the election. That is up to you all.

We will carry out the preparations. You will see how much time we are giving to these tasks. You will keep an eye on that. So it is not that we will set a deadline or that you will take whatever we can give within this time frame. It is about two preparations. If you say, hold the election, we are ready to hold the election. But it would be wrong to hold the election first.

We will proceed with the election and the reforms at the same speed. We will reach a point when the election preparations are complete. Then the election can be held on any date announced. We will ask whether we will announce the election date or proceed a little further. That is how the time will be fixed.

Prothom Alo : So does that mean the time frame for the election depends on the matter of reforms?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: To a greater extent. The entire matter depends on what you all want. What will I gain by announcing a date! Some may say that they have a design, that they want to stay in power for a long time! Just take a look at the advisors’ faces. They all look confined, as if saying - let us go. Some say I won't be able to survive with my children. How can I pay for my son’s overseas studies with the salary you pay? This is our predicament -- let’s finish up fast.
None of us are aiming at staying for a prolonged time. We want the tasks to be carried out accurately. That is our objective. What I am repeatedly saying is, this opportunity will not come in the life of this nation again. This opportunity is here now. Put this opportunity to the utmost use. Use us to get the work done so we can all say in unison that the opportunity arose and we grasped that opportunity. Let no one say, the opportunity arose, but we did not grasp it. Let no one be able to say, you failed.

India may be disheartened at certain incidents in Bangladesh. They were not pleased with the changes.

Prothom Alo: Our foreign policy is 'friendship towards all'. That is the policy we follow. Due to our country's geographical and geopolitical standing, we have to take up various stands with various countries. India is our closest neighbour. In very recent times, certain tensions have developed between the two countries. This is evident in their words, behaviour and approach. What steps do you think should be taken to change this situation, to normalise relations between the two countries and ensure that the relations are balanced?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Relations between the two countries must be very close. There can be no alternative to this. They need this, we need this. This is essential from any angle, whether it's about economics, security or water. It will be difficult for us to move along without each other. It is only natural that we have close ties and good relations in every sphere. There should not be any feeling that anyone is pressuring the other. This is a relationship between two sovereign countries. We will always endeavour to ensure this.

India may be disheartened at certain incidents in Bangladesh. They were not pleased with the changes. Things will be clear to them when they see that the entire world is accepting us, how can they not accept us. Since they must forge good relations, it is not as if we are forcing them. This is necessary in their own interests. Just as we need them in our interests, they need us in their interests. So we have to forget certain transient matters. There is no use in mulling over who said what about each other, who made cutting remarks and so on. These are just words. The main thing is to maintain good relations. We have to use everything in our power to advance towards that.

I have spoken about SAARC, even this time. There was interest in this. The heads of government of SAARC countries held meetings with me. I held meetings with everyone except with India. Sri Lanka couldn't come because they only just got their president. I would have had a meeting with him too. So even if just for formalities sake, the SAARC countries took a picture together, indicating that we are together.

Prothom Alo : That means in foreign policy, you are placing importance on balanced relations between Bangladesh and India?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: It is about strengthening ties and at the same time, strengthening SAARC.

Prothom Alo : You have brought the issue of SAARC considerably forward. SAARC hasn't been functional for a decade now.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I have been pursuing this since the creation of SAARC. I feel that this is our future. The European Union can move ahead so closely despite such historical divides, we do not have such a history of conflict. Why can't we be able to move ahead? If we were united, our prospects and opportunities would increase so much. We will have to come to SAARC. We are extending this appeal to everyone. Whoever I have met, all said that they want SAARC.

Prothom Alo : But isn't the main hindrance to SAARC India and Pakistan relations?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That can be resolved. Just because there is a problem, that doesn't mean it has to be kept up. There is a solution to this. It can't be that we will keep SAARC but keep the problem brewing too. It is not that there has to be a final resolution to the problem. But we can more or less reach a solution so that SAARC can function. India can keep certain things suspended with Pakistan, but even then move forward. This will be a major policy that I will pursue.
Then there is ASEAN. We should get ASEAN membership. There will be ASEAN on one side, SAARC on the other, with Bangladesh in the middle. We can be with the two blocs at the same time. Then we will have a wider position.

Prothom Alo : Does joining ASEAN involve economic, business and diplomatic aspects or anything else?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Basically its economic. It is a huge market which we can join. Indonesia doesn't even figure in the minds of the people in Bangladesh as a country. Such a big country is part of ASEAN, yet we neglect it. We needed to build good relations with Indonesia. We could have used this as an opportunity and benefitted from it. We have to expand our world to a wider sphere.

Prothom Alo: I had listened to a speech of yours long ago, 'Growing up with Two Giants, India and China'. After India, how do you view relations with China?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Many years ago I had said that is was a large advantage for us. The fact that we are positioned between two large economies is a strength for us, not a weakness. We can learn from both the countries. We will have markets in both the countries. Both countries will come to us. We will have to go ahead maintaining relations with both these countries. This is an opportunity for us.

To be continued...............​

 

[Saif]

Prothom Alo : Our economic relations with China have grown significantly. What do to aspire from them now?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: China's power and capabilities are a steady rise. The country is seeing steady scientific development. It has industrial development. So there is much scope for trade and business with them. There are many things they don't need which we can take. Those things can come to our country. Renewable energy is a factor. I requested China's foreign minister in this regard and he agreed. Their market has shrunk. Americans won't buy their products. The US has imposed sanctions. So I said, relocate these industries to our country. We will manufacture the products and sell them all over the world. The scope for solar energy is steadily increasing. It won't decrease. So we can take this opportunity. This time at the UN I told everyone that we want to be Number One in renewable energy. We discussed who will give how much renewable energy and in what manner. While speaking to the prime minister of Nepal, I said take as much of hydro energy as you want. We will give you as much electricity as you need. Money is not a factor. All that is needed is a transmission line over India. We will discuss the matter with India.

Prothom Alo : You are talking about taking relations with India and China ahead. But conflicts do arise.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I do not think there will be any conflict between China and India over the matter of taking hydroelectricity or about solar energy. This doesn't go against anyone's interests.

Prothom Alo : Bangladesh is strategically located. There is the matter of geopolitics. They consider each other rivals. They want to exert their influence in this area.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Such thinking must be cleared. They must think in a new manner. There is need for reforms here too. It won't do to think in the old manner. Aren't we bringing electricity from India! So what's the problem with bringing electricity from Nepal!
I keep on insisting on the need to build a "three zero world". A "three zero world" is the answer. There is no other solution. It is about zero net carbon emissions, zero wealth concentration and zero unemployment. We have to put these ahead of all our thoughts. It won't do to just go chasing after development. We have to make this socially acceptable. This is not a development highway, this is a highway of social adaptation. This won't happen until there is social adaptation and climate adaptation. Net carbon emission is number one. Then zero wealth consumption. The proper use of resources.

We are a family. We may have different views, but that doesn't mean we are enemies.

Prothom Alo: Joe Biden sidestepped the norms and held a meeting with you. Then you had talks with Clinton. You had a lot of interaction with them. What message did you receive from the US?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: The message is that they are happy. I went there as the chief advisor of Bangladesh's interim government. They are pleased that a new Bangladesh has emerged. It will be a corruption-free country. It will be a developed country in the social sense. We said that there will be change, there will be reforms. They have accepted these messages. They said, we will help you in all ways that we can. So this was an assurance. They are very eager. It is not just all words and no action. We emphasised two things at the UN. It was not just the US, but the UN, the European Union, Canada and everyone with whom we spoke. We must break away from the way dealings were done with Bangladesh. We want to go big, think big. Our transactions will be from that platform. First of all, thinking has to be changed. Things can't be done in the old way of thinking. Secondly, we have to act fast. If we as the interim government cannot show our activities, people will lose their enthusiasm. If you take your time in providing your support, and the interim government goes away, then another government comes and a few more years pass and you only start handing out your support then, it may not be of any use anymore. It will all be in the past. So provide the funds while the people are still enthusiastic so that we can work. Our economy is not in a good state now. We will need their help to strengthen this. The economy that exists is plundered and looted. We need assistance to revive this plundered economy. We repeated these matters again and again.

Prothom Alo : After the meetings, you got fresh assurances of support from the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and others.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: From everyone -- the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, Asian Development Bank, everyone.

Prothom Alo : All this must have given you hope afresh?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Certainly. The enthusiasm I saw at the UN was not just among the big states, but the small states too, the SAARC states. Everyone said, we are with you. Just tell us what we have to do. I spoke to the prime minister of Italy and the prime minister of Canada and others. Everyone is enthusiastic. The Italian prime minister said, a lot of Bangladeshi nationals come over. We have no objection. We can look into how they can come over in a legal manner. The Italian ambassador called upon me today. He also discussed on how to bring this matter under a legal framework.

Prothom Alo: You have always spoken about national unity, national understanding. It will be very difficult if we can't reach a consensus on the fundamental principles of the state. We see divisions all around us. We see groupings. How can you emerge from this state of affairs? What should our joint efforts be?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: If we look just as the past 15 years, all that we learnt was grouping, divisions and distancing. It was all about who will attack the other, who will assault the other, grab others assets, push one far away. We have to break away from such a culture.

You speak about protecting the rights of the media. I will also speak about protecting the rights of the people in the same manner. People should be able to speak. Who will snatch their rights to speak? There may be divergent views. As I said, we are one family. We may have differences of opinion, we are not each other's enemies. We must keep that in mind: we are not enemies.

We make enemies at the drop of a hat. The previous government taught us well how to make enemies, the process of making enemies. They made you an enemy. They made so many here enemies. They made me an enemy. Such strong enemies, enemies of the country. We have to break away from that culture. Why are we crying ourselves hoarse for reforms today? Because we have to emerge out of that culture.

Prothom Alo : You speak about national unity. Are there any realistic grounds for such an initiative?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: You tell me, you write in the newspapers. Start doing that, speak out. If that works, let's advance towards reaching a consensus among all. It is not so much about having the same views, but of being united. People can have differing views and different opinions. A father does not share the same views as his son or daughter, how will an entire country share the same views? There will be varied views, but we will remain united.

If we can pass this test, then all the rest will easily fall into place.

Prothom Alo : These discussions can be raised through the commissions you have formed.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: That can happen. Encourage them to do so.

Prothom Alo : We can bring about reforms, elections, but there has to be an understanding. You have a vital role to play in this area as the chief advisor. Such a unity and understanding has become imperative.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: There has to be an issue for unity. The unity of the interim government is reforms. If we agree on the issue of reforms, then that is a huge matter of unity. We may all have diverging views, but all are one when it comes to reforms.

Prothom Alo : Do reforms mean change?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Change. We do not want to return to the past. There could be no bigger unity than that. If we can pass this test, then all the rest will easily fall into place. We don't want flimsy reforms. We don't want eye-wash reforms. We want fundamental reforms. We will bring about these reforms in such a manner that they cannot be changed by anyone.

We must not hold the election without carrying out reforms. That is my appeal to everyone. Do not lose this opportunity

Prothom Alo: We saw this unity in July-August...
Dr Muhammad Yunus: What a wonderful unity was suddenly forged! Everything came to a standstill like a rock. Suddenly everything was smashed. They said, we are all one.

Prothom Alo : That means, unity is possible.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: It is not impossible! It was just two months ago. There was a unity. The entire country was one. There were no divides. Whether religious parties, the left, the right, the centre, everyone was one. They all agreed on one point: We will not go back to the old ways, the past is over.

Prothom Alo : Children, teens, youth...

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Everyone, no one was left out. We must not forget that power. We tend to forget things amid other matters. We have already started forgetting in just a matter of two months. This must not happen. We will hold on to the unity of this period so that it is permanent, so that we can form a structure through the reforms.

Prothom Alo : What message will you give the people?

Dr Muhammad Yunus: I have only one message -- reforms, reforms, reforms. Unite for reforms. This chance won't come again. Each and every moment is precious. Don't get embroiled in conflict over this. Discuss and debate over which areas need reforms. But reforms must take place. Make sure after two days you don't say, forget about reforms, we want the election now. We must not hold the election without carrying out reforms. That is my appeal to everyone. Do not lose this opportunity.

Prothom Alo : Thank you.

Dr Muhammad Yunus: Thank you too.​

 

[Bilal9]

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/30/nx-s1-5117378/nobel-laureate-muhammad-yunus-tasked-with-helping-to-chart-his-countrys-future?&jwsource=cl

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/nx-s1-5117378