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[URL unfurl="true"]https://en.prothomalo.com/opinion/interview/84mjbamvbd[/URL]Interview: Dr Muhammad Yunus (Part 1)Instead of jail, I went to take oath at Bangabhaban[ATTACH=full]9275[/ATTACH]Chief adviser Dr Muhammad Yunus spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh in an exclusive interview with Prothom AloAfter the student-people's uprising, Nobel laureate Professor Dr Muhammad Yunus took over responsibility as chief advisor of Bangladesh's interim government. At the request of the students, he took up this responsibility at a time of unprecedented political change. In an interview with Prothom Alo's editor Matiur Rahman and diplomatic correspondent Raheed Ejaz, this eminent economist spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh, materialising these dream through reforms in certain important sectors, a transition to democracy and the prevailing state of affairs.Prothom Alo: Greetings, Dr Muhammad Yunus. It's hardly been two months since you took responsibility as chief advisor of the interim government. It's a totally new time, totally new responsibility, perhaps something you hadn't imagined before. How does this responsibility feel? How are you?Dr Muhammad Yunus: I am well, quite well. This is a new responsibility, and a big responsibility. I am actively endeavouring to build up the capacity to carry out this responsibility suddenly bestowed upon me.Prothom Alo : We are all aware that for the past two decades you were subject to all sorts of humiliation. There was the rigmarole of rushing from one corridor to the other in the courts. There was even the derisive comment of dipping you into the river Padma. You could have even gone to jail. In fact, you well could have been behind bars at this moment. But suddenly everything changed. Now it is you who are lending leadership to running the state. This is an astounding and astonishing change. Had you even imagined this could have happened?Dr Muhammad Yunus: This is a completely new experience. I was just preparing to go to jail two days before all this. I had been going from court to court. Then all of a suddenly, instead of going to jail I was taking oath in Bangabhaban. Quite a surprisingly reverse scenario. Similar appeals to take responsibility of the government had been made to me in the past. I had asked to be excused and turned down the offer every time. I never really seriously thought that I would have to take responsibility. But this time it was a completely different scenario. That is why I took up this responsibility.Prothom Alo: How did you get involved in this colossal change? How did contact between you and the students come about? At what phase did you give your assent?Dr Muhammad Yunus: I had had no contact with the student leaders. I was seeing them on the television news. I was viewing it like the movements that take place time and again. I was out of the country when the movement was deepening. I was carrying out a certain responsibility in the Paris Olympics. I was involved in its designing. It was then that the movement had reached a height. A road in Paris was named after me then at that time and I inaugurated it. So I was looking at things there, looking at things here, from afar.Those from my office who would keep in contact with me were saying, Sir, don't come back now. Things aren't looking good. They will probably send you to jail. So keep away now. We are keeping an eye on things and will tell you when the time is right to return. I had accordingly decided to go Berlin, and then Rome and then Brazil, and so on. It had never occurred to me that I would be returning to the country and be taking up such a responsibility. Then one of the students told my office he wanted to speak with me. That was the first time I had heard from the students. I wanted to know what they wanted to speak about. I was told that I would have to take responsibility of the government. I said, that is quite another matter. I asked whether they had spoken to him and they said they had. So I say, all right, I will talk too, let's see what they have to say. I tried to convince them not to give me this responsibility. I had already distanced myself from such a responsibility. It would not be right to take this up. I said, search for someone else who is suitable. They said, no Sir, there is no one else. You must take on this responsibility. I told them again, look around. After you look around, then let me know how things stand. He said, okay Sir, we will let you know tomorrow. He called again the next day and said, Sir, there is no other way. You must come. You must take up this duty. You must come immediately. I told them that I was in hospital and would not be able to come so fast. I will consult the physician and see what he said. However, I said, since you have sacrificed so many lives and are saying that I must take the responsibility, no matter what reservations I may have, I acquiesce to your request. But I need to consult with the physician first to let you know when I can come. He said, no Sir, you have to come soon. So I spoke to the physician at the hospital. The physician said, you are supposed to stay in hospital tomorrow too. I will see if I can get you released tomorrow. The next day when I woke up in the morning, the physician said, you may leave now if you want. The doctor released me and I returned to the country.Prothom Alo : You took this decision. Did you have a chance to consult with anyone else, other than the student leaders?Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not even know who else there is. I had no idea of anything.Prothom Alo: Your relationship with the student leaders...Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not have any sort of relation with them. I did not know who they were. I first saw them only after I returned to Dhaka. They were at the airport. That's when I was introduced to them.Prothom Alo : You took over responsibility of the country two months ago at a critical juncture. It was an eventful time. How would you evaluate this span of time, the July-August period, your return and taking over responsibility?Dr Muhammad Yunus: Things happened so fast. I returned and took oath that very night. Everything was topsy-turvy. I was supposed to go to jail upon my return, instead things took quite a different turn! What was to be done? Who were these persons? Who will be at the swearing in? Everything was new! It was a whole new scenario. But still, I thought since they asked me to take responsibility, since I agreed, I would carry out my responsibility accordingly. Thus I embarked on this journey in an unknown world with unknown associates.Prothom Alo: You were an advisor in the 1996 caretaker government. After that you have had no opportunity to visit Bangabhaban or Ganabhaban. Or did you?Dr Muhammad Yunus: I went when governments other than Awami League were in power. They invited me. I was even invited to the swearing in of Awami League's first government. And I attended that too.Prothom Alo : You attended the United General Assembly session this time too. On a departure from the norms, you had a meeting with Joe Biden too. And then Clinton. Then then many heads of state. You had meetings with the heads of the European Union, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund. We noted a lot of interest and enthusiasm about the changes in Bangladesh and also about you. Your presence, your identity made a big difference. You met many old friends. You took part in many events. On the whole, what sort of response did you receive regarding the new Bangladesh?Dr. Muhammad Yunus: Everyone was enthusiastic. Hope sprung up that this country would be able to rise up again. They hadn't been too pleased with what they had been observing in the country. Now that I was in front of them, they expressed their enthusiasm about the change. I knew many of them, they were friends and acquaintances. I was very close to many of them. So they were pleased to have me there. They expressed their happiness in so many ways.I held official meetings. But the official meetings turned into a meeting of friends. They said, what do you need? We will arrange things accordingly. They really took me to be one of them. Many of the officials knew me because I was involved in several organisations. They received me in that manner, very eagerly. They were eager to know what support and cooperation they could extend us in the changed circumstances. I made it very clear too that it wouldn't do to view things same as before. A new situation had arisen and this called for a new way of thinking. Old calculations would have to be discarded. We made to take a big jump. It won't do to have so many conditionalities as before. I stressed this point with whomever I held meetings and they appreciated it. In fact, one of them made a phone call right from there, issuing instructions: Do this right now.We were talking and directives were being sent out too. I felt hugely encouraged. I said, it won't be enough just to step up the funds, but things must be speeded up too... if we sign an agreement, it takes years for the funds to come through and then it comes to no use. I said we need things speedily. This change needs immediate changes. So make all the formalities concise so we can set to task immediately. Everyone appreciated that and said, we understand. We will make sure things are done speedily.Prothom Alo: They carried things out fast. You will also have to see that things are carried out here in the country. That is why the initiatives you have taken for reforms are vital.Dr Muhammad Yunus: Definitely. Our emphasis is on reforms. If we are to carry out reforms, we have to do this speedily. We do not have the scope to carry out reforms in a slow and steady manner. So we have to start the reforms from now. We are starting work from a devastated structure.Prothom Alo : That is the point I was about to make. From the outside, you did not know so much about the inside of the country. You just knew in general about the wrongdoings, the injustices, the corruption, the politicisation. So once you took responsibility, what did you see?Dr Muhammad Yunus: A completely broken-down state of affairs. Nothing was functioning. There was an administrative structure, everything aimed at the veneration of one individual. Everything was in place to follow that one individual's orders, to fulfill that individual's wishes. They were not bothered about the demands of the state. So we had to start off with a disjointed and crumbling public administration.Prothom Alo : So it's a tough journey that you have embarked upon...Dr Muhammad Yunus: Extremely tough.Prothom Alo: Did you anticipate this before you came to this position?Dr Muhammad Yunus: Once we entered, it was clear. Earlier it was evident, but in a hazy manner. From outside it is hard to comprehend the extent of the damage within. There are so many things to understand, why certain orders were issued, what was done, how the funds were spent, why the contracts were signed, and so on. How was the money distributed? It was a free-for-all, take whatever you can, this was the chance. That was how things were running. Now we have to bring order to that situation, there is no other alternative. It is a difficult task to clear all this up.Prothom Alo : It is difficult and also requires time. When you arrived at the airport on 8 August this year, you said your first task was to restore law and order, to normalise the situation. How successful have you been?Dr Muhammad Yunus: We are trying. We have not been successful as yet. Law and order is not completely back to normal as yet. I do not want to go into explanations, but things haven't improved that much. They may have improved to an extent, but not to the level required. So our utmost effort will be to stabilise that. That is our primary task. Unless that is done, we can't carry out the rest of the tasks.Prothom Alo: The task is certainly not that easy. The police force has broken down. How can you reassure the people? Is the administration cooperating?Dr Muhammad Yunus: There is cooperation from the top levels, but we hear of speculations about secret things going on. We are not placing must importance on that. As we weren't getting complete service from the police, we requested the armed forces to come forward. They did. Then they said we do not have the scope to work. That is when the question of providing them with magistracy powers arose. I agreed. Initially we have given them magistracy powers for two months so that they can take up the task.Prothom Alo : Is two months adequate?Dr Muhammad Yunus: We thought we'll initially provide this for two months and then see how things proceed. If we see this is working out, then we will extend it. We hope they will agree. But these two months are experimental. There are all sorts of worries too. We don't want this to be a misuse of power. If one person accidently misuses his authority, there is no use in blaming the army. If a member of the army, an officer, does this, the disrepute falls upon the entire army. It will befall us too, people will question this decision of ours. We want to see if things are carried out well.To be continued..................
[URL unfurl="true"]https://en.prothomalo.com/opinion/interview/84mjbamvbd[/URL]
Interview: Dr Muhammad Yunus (Part 1)
Instead of jail, I went to take oath at Bangabhaban
[ATTACH=full]9275[/ATTACH]
Chief adviser Dr Muhammad Yunus spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh in an exclusive interview with Prothom Alo
After the student-people's uprising, Nobel laureate Professor Dr Muhammad Yunus took over responsibility as chief advisor of Bangladesh's interim government. At the request of the students, he took up this responsibility at a time of unprecedented political change. In an interview with Prothom Alo's editor Matiur Rahman and diplomatic correspondent Raheed Ejaz, this eminent economist spoke at length on people's dreams for a new Bangladesh, materialising these dream through reforms in certain important sectors, a transition to democracy and the prevailing state of affairs.
Prothom Alo: Greetings, Dr Muhammad Yunus. It's hardly been two months since you took responsibility as chief advisor of the interim government. It's a totally new time, totally new responsibility, perhaps something you hadn't imagined before. How does this responsibility feel? How are you?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: I am well, quite well. This is a new responsibility, and a big responsibility. I am actively endeavouring to build up the capacity to carry out this responsibility suddenly bestowed upon me.
Prothom Alo : We are all aware that for the past two decades you were subject to all sorts of humiliation. There was the rigmarole of rushing from one corridor to the other in the courts. There was even the derisive comment of dipping you into the river Padma. You could have even gone to jail. In fact, you well could have been behind bars at this moment. But suddenly everything changed. Now it is you who are lending leadership to running the state. This is an astounding and astonishing change. Had you even imagined this could have happened?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: This is a completely new experience. I was just preparing to go to jail two days before all this. I had been going from court to court. Then all of a suddenly, instead of going to jail I was taking oath in Bangabhaban. Quite a surprisingly reverse scenario. Similar appeals to take responsibility of the government had been made to me in the past. I had asked to be excused and turned down the offer every time. I never really seriously thought that I would have to take responsibility. But this time it was a completely different scenario. That is why I took up this responsibility.
Prothom Alo: How did you get involved in this colossal change? How did contact between you and the students come about? At what phase did you give your assent?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: I had had no contact with the student leaders. I was seeing them on the television news. I was viewing it like the movements that take place time and again. I was out of the country when the movement was deepening. I was carrying out a certain responsibility in the Paris Olympics. I was involved in its designing. It was then that the movement had reached a height. A road in Paris was named after me then at that time and I inaugurated it. So I was looking at things there, looking at things here, from afar.
Those from my office who would keep in contact with me were saying, Sir, don't come back now. Things aren't looking good. They will probably send you to jail. So keep away now. We are keeping an eye on things and will tell you when the time is right to return. I had accordingly decided to go Berlin, and then Rome and then Brazil, and so on. It had never occurred to me that I would be returning to the country and be taking up such a responsibility. Then one of the students told my office he wanted to speak with me. That was the first time I had heard from the students. I wanted to know what they wanted to speak about. I was told that I would have to take responsibility of the government. I said, that is quite another matter. I asked whether they had spoken to him and they said they had. So I say, all right, I will talk too, let's see what they have to say. I tried to convince them not to give me this responsibility. I had already distanced myself from such a responsibility. It would not be right to take this up. I said, search for someone else who is suitable. They said, no Sir, there is no one else. You must take on this responsibility. I told them again, look around. After you look around, then let me know how things stand. He said, okay Sir, we will let you know tomorrow. He called again the next day and said, Sir, there is no other way. You must come. You must take up this duty. You must come immediately. I told them that I was in hospital and would not be able to come so fast. I will consult the physician and see what he said. However, I said, since you have sacrificed so many lives and are saying that I must take the responsibility, no matter what reservations I may have, I acquiesce to your request. But I need to consult with the physician first to let you know when I can come. He said, no Sir, you have to come soon. So I spoke to the physician at the hospital. The physician said, you are supposed to stay in hospital tomorrow too. I will see if I can get you released tomorrow. The next day when I woke up in the morning, the physician said, you may leave now if you want. The doctor released me and I returned to the country.
Prothom Alo : You took this decision. Did you have a chance to consult with anyone else, other than the student leaders?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not even know who else there is. I had no idea of anything.
Prothom Alo: Your relationship with the student leaders...
Dr Muhammad Yunus: I did not have any sort of relation with them. I did not know who they were. I first saw them only after I returned to Dhaka. They were at the airport. That's when I was introduced to them.
Prothom Alo : You took over responsibility of the country two months ago at a critical juncture. It was an eventful time. How would you evaluate this span of time, the July-August period, your return and taking over responsibility?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Things happened so fast. I returned and took oath that very night. Everything was topsy-turvy. I was supposed to go to jail upon my return, instead things took quite a different turn! What was to be done? Who were these persons? Who will be at the swearing in? Everything was new! It was a whole new scenario. But still, I thought since they asked me to take responsibility, since I agreed, I would carry out my responsibility accordingly. Thus I embarked on this journey in an unknown world with unknown associates.
Prothom Alo: You were an advisor in the 1996 caretaker government. After that you have had no opportunity to visit Bangabhaban or Ganabhaban. Or did you?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: I went when governments other than Awami League were in power. They invited me. I was even invited to the swearing in of Awami League's first government. And I attended that too.
Prothom Alo : You attended the United General Assembly session this time too. On a departure from the norms, you had a meeting with Joe Biden too. And then Clinton. Then then many heads of state. You had meetings with the heads of the European Union, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund. We noted a lot of interest and enthusiasm about the changes in Bangladesh and also about you. Your presence, your identity made a big difference. You met many old friends. You took part in many events. On the whole, what sort of response did you receive regarding the new Bangladesh?
Dr. Muhammad Yunus: Everyone was enthusiastic. Hope sprung up that this country would be able to rise up again. They hadn't been too pleased with what they had been observing in the country. Now that I was in front of them, they expressed their enthusiasm about the change. I knew many of them, they were friends and acquaintances. I was very close to many of them. So they were pleased to have me there. They expressed their happiness in so many ways.
I held official meetings. But the official meetings turned into a meeting of friends. They said, what do you need? We will arrange things accordingly. They really took me to be one of them. Many of the officials knew me because I was involved in several organisations. They received me in that manner, very eagerly. They were eager to know what support and cooperation they could extend us in the changed circumstances. I made it very clear too that it wouldn't do to view things same as before. A new situation had arisen and this called for a new way of thinking. Old calculations would have to be discarded. We made to take a big jump. It won't do to have so many conditionalities as before. I stressed this point with whomever I held meetings and they appreciated it. In fact, one of them made a phone call right from there, issuing instructions: Do this right now.
We were talking and directives were being sent out too. I felt hugely encouraged. I said, it won't be enough just to step up the funds, but things must be speeded up too... if we sign an agreement, it takes years for the funds to come through and then it comes to no use. I said we need things speedily. This change needs immediate changes. So make all the formalities concise so we can set to task immediately. Everyone appreciated that and said, we understand. We will make sure things are done speedily.
Prothom Alo: They carried things out fast. You will also have to see that things are carried out here in the country. That is why the initiatives you have taken for reforms are vital.
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Definitely. Our emphasis is on reforms. If we are to carry out reforms, we have to do this speedily. We do not have the scope to carry out reforms in a slow and steady manner. So we have to start the reforms from now. We are starting work from a devastated structure.
Prothom Alo : That is the point I was about to make. From the outside, you did not know so much about the inside of the country. You just knew in general about the wrongdoings, the injustices, the corruption, the politicisation. So once you took responsibility, what did you see?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: A completely broken-down state of affairs. Nothing was functioning. There was an administrative structure, everything aimed at the veneration of one individual. Everything was in place to follow that one individual's orders, to fulfill that individual's wishes. They were not bothered about the demands of the state. So we had to start off with a disjointed and crumbling public administration.
Prothom Alo : So it's a tough journey that you have embarked upon...
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Extremely tough.
Prothom Alo: Did you anticipate this before you came to this position?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: Once we entered, it was clear. Earlier it was evident, but in a hazy manner. From outside it is hard to comprehend the extent of the damage within. There are so many things to understand, why certain orders were issued, what was done, how the funds were spent, why the contracts were signed, and so on. How was the money distributed? It was a free-for-all, take whatever you can, this was the chance. That was how things were running. Now we have to bring order to that situation, there is no other alternative. It is a difficult task to clear all this up.
Prothom Alo : It is difficult and also requires time. When you arrived at the airport on 8 August this year, you said your first task was to restore law and order, to normalise the situation. How successful have you been?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: We are trying. We have not been successful as yet. Law and order is not completely back to normal as yet. I do not want to go into explanations, but things haven't improved that much. They may have improved to an extent, but not to the level required. So our utmost effort will be to stabilise that. That is our primary task. Unless that is done, we can't carry out the rest of the tasks.
Prothom Alo: The task is certainly not that easy. The police force has broken down. How can you reassure the people? Is the administration cooperating?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: There is cooperation from the top levels, but we hear of speculations about secret things going on. We are not placing must importance on that. As we weren't getting complete service from the police, we requested the armed forces to come forward. They did. Then they said we do not have the scope to work. That is when the question of providing them with magistracy powers arose. I agreed. Initially we have given them magistracy powers for two months so that they can take up the task.
Prothom Alo : Is two months adequate?
Dr Muhammad Yunus: We thought we'll initially provide this for two months and then see how things proceed. If we see this is working out, then we will extend it. We hope they will agree. But these two months are experimental. There are all sorts of worries too. We don't want this to be a misuse of power. If one person accidently misuses his authority, there is no use in blaming the army. If a member of the army, an officer, does this, the disrepute falls upon the entire army. It will befall us too, people will question this decision of ours. We want to see if things are carried out well.
To be continued..................
