[🇵🇰] The Ayub Khan Regime (1958-68): The Golden Era of Pakistan

[PakistanProud]

Musharraf was successful because he was a pro-western backed dictator. Had he been like Saddam Hussein, he would have been screwed. lol.

Even more irony comes into play when you understand that from 2001 till about 2019 the amount of suicide bombings and guerilla warfare that the Pakistani army, security, and even civilians had to endure helped strengthen us and made us one of the strongest armies that can face guerilla warfare in this modern age.

Think about this, Russia, the UK, the US, NATO, etc, had to concede victory to the Mujhadeen/Taliban. Russia also had to concede to the Chechens by cozying up to them so that the armed groups go away.

Pakistan is perhaps the only army to defeat terrorism head-on. We had attempted to give the Pakistani Taliban Swat until they started taking advantage, but then went to war with them and won.

The US couldn't even do that with the Taliban.

So, to this date, the Pakistani army has experience in guerilla warfare, all due to Musharraf agreeing to side with the west after 2001. The world is a mysterious place.

@ghazi

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Yeah, unfortunately. He was in a tight position.

From 2001-2006 Pakistan was amongst the best in the entire world (and this isn't saying it lightly) in terms of economic developments.

"Musharraf's regime embraced globalization making structural reforms, opening the country to investment and trade. The results surprised even his most ardent supporters -- the size of the economy increased by almost 50 percent, with income per-capita up by nearly 25 percent. Cities and towns seem to be booming. The country managed to recover impressively from the devastating earthquake in 2005 [6]. In short, the economic paradox of Muisharraf's fall from grace "

This report by Robert Looney is a strong read.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA520258.pdf @Old School @ThunderCat

What Pakistan needs is a new reform-minded leader like Emperor Meiji who turned Japan into an industrialized world power :

1) Build new Universities - compulsory and affordable mass education
2) Industrialization
3) Economic Prosperity
4) Strong military - I think we are good at that
5) improve reputation of the country
6) Make Pakistan a world power
7) Get rid of Feudalism
8) Improve transportation network - Build huge highways and railroads
9) Establish a proper "Islamic" democracy. Japan copied German/Prussian democracy of 1890's.
10) Establish a proper Socialist free-market Capitalist economy like China's.
@PakistanProud
@Old School

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Even more irony comes into play when you understand that from 2001 till about 2019 the amount of suicide bombings and guerilla warfare that the Pakistani army, security, and even civilians had to endure helped strengthen us and made us one of the strongest armies that can face guerilla warfare in this modern age.

Think about this, Russia, the UK, the US, NATO, etc, had to concede victory to the Mujhadeen/Taliban. Russia also had to concede to the Chechens by cozying up to them so that the armed groups go away.

Pakistan is perhaps the only army to defeat terrorism head-on. We had attempted to give the Pakistani Taliban Swat until they started taking advantage, but then went to war with them and won.

The US couldn't even do that with the Taliban.

So, to this date, the Pakistani army has experience in guerilla warfare, all due to Musharraf agreeing to side with the west after 2001. The world is a mysterious place.

@ghazi

Yeah, unfortunately. He was in a tight position.

From 2001-2006 Pakistan was amongst the best in the entire world (and this isn't saying it lightly) in terms of economic developments.

"Musharraf's regime embraced globalization making structural reforms, opening the country to investment and trade. The results surprised even his most ardent supporters -- the size of the economy increased by almost 50 percent, with income per-capita up by nearly 25 percent. Cities and towns seem to be booming. The country managed to recover impressively from the devastating earthquake in 2005 [6]. In short, the economic paradox of Muisharraf's fall from grace "

This report by Robert Looney is a strong read.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA520258.pdf @Old School @ThunderCat

True, there were Pros and Cons by siding with USA.

But I do believe "you are either with us or against us" was a bit a stupid.

Now the Afghan Taliban has won in Afghanistan and now controls Afghanistan. lol.

 

[PakistanProud]

True, there were Pros and Cons by siding with USA.

But I do believe "you are either with us or against us" was a bit a stupid.

Now the Afghan Taliban has won in Afghanistan and now controls Afghanistan. lol.

Although many on this forum might not like it with the Afghan Taliban controlling Afghanistan, it puts Pakistan in a far far better place than with the previous puppets who controlled it. The previous Afghan puppets hated Pakistan with a passion and a very dead-on passion. They hated Pakistan with lust.

The current Taliban regime has its downs but that's natural for borders to create enemies and neighbors to have distrust. The current Afghan government is a blessing of monumental proportions as to what Pakistan had to endure with the previous puppets.

It is like a mini-extension that Pakistan has in Afghanistan now, even if they aren't pro-Pakistan if you do a side-by-side comparison.

So I would cut them some slack @Lulldapull - they do have their wrongs, which we should take on and speak up about. But, always look at the bigger picture.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Although many on this form might now like it, the Afghan Taliban controlling Afghanistan is far far better than the previous puppets who controlled it. The previous Afghan puppets hated Pakistan with a passion and a very dead-on passion. They hated Pakistan with lust.

The current Taliban regime has its downs but that's natural for borders to create enemies and neighbors to have distrust. But the current Afghan government is a blessing of monumental proportions as to what Pakistan had to endure with the previous puppets.

It is like a mini-extension that Pakistan has in Afghanistan now, even if they aren't pro-Pakistan if you do a side-by-side comparison.

So I would cut them some slack @Lulldapull - they do have their wrongs, which we should take on and speak up about. But, always look at the bigger picture.

The Afghan Taliban in Afghanistan are Pro-Pakistan unlike the Northern Alliance.
This works in our interests. Now with USA gone forever Insh'Allah, we can focus on Kashmir dispute.
Some Pakistani billionaires should have purchased Afghanistan a long time ago. Afghanistan is our land and we have every right to it.

 

[Lulldapull]

Although many on this forum might not like it with the Afghan Taliban controlling Afghanistan, it puts Pakistan in a far far better place than with the previous puppets who controlled it. The previous Afghan puppets hated Pakistan with a passion and a very dead-on passion. They hated Pakistan with lust.

The current Taliban regime has its downs but that's natural for borders to create enemies and neighbors to have distrust. The current Afghan government is a blessing of monumental proportions as to what Pakistan had to endure with the previous puppets.

It is like a mini-extension that Pakistan has in Afghanistan now, even if they aren't pro-Pakistan if you do a side-by-side comparison.

So I would cut them some slack @Lulldapull - they do have their wrongs, which we should take on and speak up about. But, always look at the bigger picture.

We just killed 30 odd TTP in KPK yesterday and lost 5 of our troops whilst they were running back to their sanctuaries in Paktia/ Khost/ Jalalabad. The main problem here is that Afghani don't respect us. We've tried everything in the book to change this budtameez behavior of theirs thus far, but it hasn't worked yet. And personally, I see this lack of respect for us and our country by the afghani as the number one reason for this situation.

 

[Old School]

He was in a tough position in 2001 when Bush threatened Pakistan by saying "you are with us or with the terrorists - and we will bomb you to the stone age".

Musharraf told many lies to justify many of his actions. Musharraf claimed it in his book because it was said to be "in private." Otherwise, as per the record, there is no public evidence of this conversation.
No one can say anything like "bombing to the stone Age" to a nuclear power, and Pakistan was already a formidable nuclear power at that time. The USA is not stupid. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were bombed to the stone age for sure because they didn't have nuclear weapons or they gave up. Pakistan and North Korea are still safe precisely because they are declared nuclear power. You are free to believe Musharraf, but a lot of key officials in Pakistan know the fact that he lied in his book. Think bout what would would have happened if we and North Korea had no nuclear weapon . USA would just greenlight India and Japan, South Korea to the dirty work. Gaddafi and Saddam both were fool to belive the west made the grave mistake of giving up their nuclear capabilities. See what happened to them.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Musharraf told many lies to justify many of his actions. Musharraf claimed it in his book because it was said to be "in private." Otherwise, as per the record, there is no public evidence of this conversation.
No one can say anything like "bombing to the stone Age" to a nuclear power, and Pakistan is a formidable nuclear power. The USA is not stupid. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were bombed to the stone age for sure because they didn't have nuclear weapons or they gave up. Pakistan and North Korea are still safe precisely because they are declared nuclear power. You are free to believe Musharraf, but a lot of key officials in Pakistan know the fact that he lied in his book.

You have proof Musharraf lied in his " In the line of Fire" biography book?

 

[Old School]

You have proof Musharraf lied in his " In the line of Fire" book?

Do you have proof Richard Armitage said that to Musharraf besides Musharraf's book? Is there any other witness to this conversation? When you claim something, you have the burden of proof. Musharraf claimed it, so he had to provide evidence. Did Richard Armitage himself ever confirm it?

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Do you have proof Richard Armitage said that to Musharraf besides Musharraf's book? Is there any other witness to this conversation?

No I don't, but Bush did say "You are either with us or the terrorists?" Why can't we be neutral?

Secondly the invasion of Iraq was based on a lie. So why should we believe the West, when the West has done many wrongs? Maybe Musharraf is telling the truth this time.

Forget Burden of proof, do you have evidence that Musharraf lied, other than saying he did not provide proof for the "bombing you back for the stone age" statement?

 

[Old School]

No I don't, but Bush did say "You are either with us or the terrorists?" Why can't we be neutral?

Secondly the invasion of Iraq was based on a lie. So why should we believe the West, when the West has done many wrongs? Maybe Musharraf is telling the truth this time.

Either with us or the terrorists is not the same as bombing to the Stone Age. Besides, we are not talking about Bush. We are talking about the claim what Richard Armitage told Mushrraf. Armitage was in a much lower position at that time to have such a big mouth.

 

[Azad Kashmir]

not for us azad kashmir people ayub flooded our homes to build a dam that should benefit us but it benefit instead lahore.