[🇵🇰] No Khan do: With the favorite in jail and violence rising, Pakistan’s elections look like a problem not the solution

[Old School]

Source : https://www.rt.com/news/592345-pakistan-elections-2024-imran-khan/

National polls held last week resulted in no party securing a clear majority. However, forming a government is not the key challenge.
By Gleb Makarevich, Deputy Head of Centre for the Indian Ocean Region Studies, IMEMO RAS

As early as August 2023 (in fact, even before that), it became apparent that the leaders of the Pakistan Democratic Movement (PDM) coalition government were not planning to give up power easily and give it to supporters of Imran Khan, arguably the most popular politician in the country. Khan was ousted as prime minister after losing a vote of no confidence in April 2022 that, he then alleged, had been plotted by a US-led foreign conspiracy that also involved Pakistan’s powerful military.
It was the leadership of the Pakistan Muslim League (N) (PML-N) that was particularly reluctant to share power with Imran Khan’s party and was waiting for PML-N’s leader, Nawaz Sharif, to return from London and launch his campaign to become prime minister for the fourth time. Imran Khan’s sharp-tongued supporters labeled all initiatives coming from the PML-N as the ‘London Plan’, believing, justifiably, that these were developed in coordination with the military elite. Read more here.

 

[LegionnairE]

So what is going to happen?

 

[Old School]

So what is going to happen?

A puppet government ( excluding Imran Khan's party) will be formed under the supervision of the puppet masters ( deep state). However, this is going to backfire soon. What the establishment has failed to realize is that the middle class has lost confidence in the establishment, which has been ruling Pakistan since its birth in 1947. It is the same as it was in Turkey until the Turkish people fixed the problem under the leadership of Erdogan. The same is going to happen in Pakistan in the end. The deep state in Pakistan, just like the infamous 'Ergenekun' in Turkey, is no longer safe.

 

[dalit]

PDM 2.0 is coming.

 

[dalit]

A puppet government ( excluding Imran Khan's party) will be formed under the supervision of the puppet masters ( deep state). However, this is going to backfire soon. What the establishment has failed to realize is that the middle class has lost confidence in the establishment, which has been ruling Pakistan since its birth in 1947. It is the same as it was in Turkey until the Turkish people fixed the problem under the leadership of Erdogan. The same is going to happen in Pakistan in the end. The deep state in Pakistan, just like the infamous 'Ergenekun' in Turkey, is no longer safe.

Pakistan is currently the Turkiye of 1947.

 

[Old School]

Pakistan is currently the Turkiye of 1947.

Turkish people themselves finally got rid of the deep state in 2016, as you can see below:

 

[TheNewb77]

Turkish people themselves finally got rid of the deep state in 2016, as you can see below:
View attachment 2665

What the Turkish people did in 2016 was deciding factor for not just Turkey, but the region as a whole. Although @LegionnairE may have differences with Erdogan, I believe he also is against the coup attempt.

 

[Old School]

What the Turkish people did in 2016 was deciding factor for not just Turkey, but the region as a whole. Although @LegionnairE may have differences with Erdogan, I believe he also is against the coup attempt.

Still, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, and Bangladesh are all suffering from the same kind of deep state that we have in Pakistan.

 

[TheNewb77]

Still, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, and Bangladesh are all suffering from the same kind of deep state that we have in Pakistan.

Bangladesh and Egypt are FAR, FAR worse than Pakistan's deep state. They make our military generals look decent in comparison. @SAMI_1

 

[Old School]

Bangladesh and Egypt are FAR, FAR worse than Pakistan's deep state. They make our military generals look decent in comparison. @SAMI_1

Right. Bangladesh and Egypt's militaries officially run the largest business enterprises in those countries. However, our generals are quick learners, so don't forget. They adopted the Bangladeshi model of caretaker government even though the Bangladeshi deep state dumped it for a one-party rule with a supreme leader.

 

[TheNewb77]

Right. Bangladesh and Egypt's militaries officially run the largest business enterprises in those countries. However, our generals are quick learners, so don't forget. They adopted the Bangladeshi model of caretaker government even though the Bangladeshi deep state dumped it for a one-party rule with a supreme leader.

Yes but you cannot even imagine taking over the Bangladeshi or Egyptian deep states as you did in Turkey and now recently attempting to do in Pakistan. In Bangladesh and Egypt the military would not hesitate to slaughter you. @Bilal9 and @Saif may confirm.

 

[Old School]

Yes but you cannot even imagine taking over the Bangladeshi or Egyptian deep states as you did in Turkey and now recently attempting to do in Pakistan. In Bangladesh and Egypt the military would not hesitate to slaughter you. @Bilal9 and @Saif may confirm.

It is not easy to slaughter people in Punjab because that will be the end. Now that even Punjabis are unhappy with the deep state, it is now time to go after the deep state in Pakistan, as they have their limitations. Their family members will not support them when the time comes.

 

[dalit]

Turkish people themselves finally got rid of the deep state in 2016, as you can see below:
View attachment 2665
View attachment 2666
View attachment 2667

For now the Americans and the US deep state require the Pakistani military for shoddy jobs.

 

[Old School]

For now the Americans and the US deep state require the Pakistani military for shoddy jobs.

Until recently, our middle class supported the deep state without question all along, without realizing that this path has ruined the country almost beyond repair. I blame our middle-class people for giving the deep state a free hand. According to them, the deep state is made of saints, while all other civilians are thieves ! No country in the world has ever prospered under military interference in politics. No one can remain the defender of Pakistan while destroying the country from within. Enemy within is more dangerous than external enemies. We focused too much on external enemies while forgetting the fifth column inside the country. When the middle class changes their foolish attitude that the military is better than the civilians , Pakistan will change—otherwise, no way to get rid of the status quo of a vicious cycle.

 

[Bilal9]

Yes but you cannot even imagine taking over the Bangladeshi or Egyptian deep states as you did in Turkey and now recently attempting to do in Pakistan. In Bangladesh and Egypt the military would not hesitate to slaughter you. @Bilal9 and @Saif may confirm.

Yes I have to agree that the Military in Bangladesh is pretty ruthless in carrying out its interests. However they are all kept in check nowadays by PM Hasina. They hardly have any ambition to be in power anymore. They are happy as long as lucrative govt. contracts and UN postings are in the pipeline for senior officers. The military-owned business/industrial complexes making FMCG products are hugely profitable and compete well with privately owned commercial companies.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkish people themselves finally got rid of the deep state in 2016, as you can see below:
View attachment 2665
View attachment 2666
View attachment 2667

Please delete these images, this isn't something to be proud of, this was the most shameful day of Turkey in 21st century.

Who organized the coup wasn't some sort of "establishment" just a bunch of cultists who infiltrated the government.


I must say, Pakistan-Turkey comparisons are wildly inaccurate and completely detached from reality.

What the Turkish people did in 2016 was deciding factor for not just Turkey, but the region as a whole. Although @LegionnairE may have differences with Erdogan, I believe he also is against the coup attempt.

Erdogan himself allowed these cultists to infiltrate the military. Before him Turkish army hunted them down and kicked them out of their ranks.

"We got fooled" - Erdogan after the 2016 coup attempt. He himself admitted his fault. This wasn't a victorious day for him, it's probably still one of his biggest shames.

 

[Old School]

Please delete these images, this isn't something to be proud of, this was the most shameful day of Turkey in 21st century.

Who organized the coup wasn't some sort of "establishment" just a bunch of cultists who infiltrated the government.


I must say, Pakistan-Turkey comparisons are wildly inaccurate and completely detached from reality.


Erdogan himself allowed these cultists to infiltrate the military. Before him Turkish army hunted them down and kicked them out of their ranks.

"We got fooled" - Erdogan after the 2016 coup attempt. He himself admitted his fault. This wasn't a victorious day for him, it's probably still one of his biggest shames.

I appreciate your feedback. Do you have experience working with government/ military ?

 

[Old School]

Yes I have to agree that the Military in Bangladesh is pretty ruthless in carrying out its interests. However they are all kept in check nowadays by PM Hasina. They hardly have any ambition to be in power anymore. They are happy as long as lucrative govt. contracts and UN postings are in the pipeline for senior officers. The military-owned business/industrial complexes making FMCG products are hugely profitable and compete well with privately owned commercial companies.

I was posted in Bangladesh on my professional capacity for some time. I still maintain good contacts with BD officials from FO to military. My impression is that a large part of urban middle class has a martial law fetish. They want direct martial law to return. The same is true in Pakistan and other muslim majority countries.

 

[Vikings]

However they are all kept in check nowadays by PM Hasina.

Couldn't it be opposite ? Couldn't it be possible that Hasina is just the front face of Bangladeshi deep state?

 

[LegionnairE]

I appreciate your feedback. Do you have experience working with government/ military ?

You don't have to have any experience working in the government to know any of this. Everybody in Turkey knows this stuff, even kids.

 

[Old School]

You don't have to have any experience working in the government to know any of this. Everybody in Turkey knows this stuff, even kids.

In Pakistan, they say the same, except for the government and military officials, who usually remain tight-lipped, and their usual reply will be that they do not know. Just the opposite of the ordinary people. Interesting.

 

[LegionnairE]

In Pakistan, they say the same, except for the government and military officials, who usually remain tight-lipped, and their usual reply will be that they do not know. Just the opposite of the ordinary people. Interesting.

No, this is exactly what government officials said too.

There were anti-cultist purges after the coup attempt. These are very basic facts.

Turkey has been fighting dangerous islamic cults since the days of Mehmet the conqueror.

Erdogan allowed them free reign to win their support and it backfired.

 

[Old School]

No, this is exactly what government officials said too.

There were anti-cultist purges after the coup attempt. These are very basic facts.

Turkey has been fighting dangerous islamic cults since the days of Mehmet the conqueror.

Erdogan allowed them free reign to win their support and it backfired.

Do you mean the Gulenist? He lives here in the US. I believe that many people misunderstand Kemal Ataturk. He knew exactly where a religion belonged and where it didn't belong. He showed religion its own place.

 

[dalit]

Until recently, our middle class supported the deep state without question all along, without realizing that this path has ruined the country almost beyond repair. I blame our middle-class people for giving the deep state a free hand. According to them, the deep state is made of saints, while all other civilians are thieves ! No country in the world has ever prospered under military interference in politics. No one can remain the defender of Pakistan while destroying the country from within. Enemy within is more dangerous than external enemies. We focused too much on external enemies while forgetting the fifth column inside the country. When the middle class changes their foolish attitude that the military is better than the civilians , Pakistan will change—otherwise, no way to get rid of the status quo of a vicious cycle.

The perception of the Pakistani military has changed enormously after the cipher revelation. The election results clearly demonstrate that the people don't stand nor respect the military as they once used to. Despite extreme rigging during the elections, the people have still overwhelmingly voted for PTI.

Pakistan is headed for more economic and political instability. PDM 2.0 is in the making and we will see more instability.