[🇮🇳] No surprise Pakistan sounded for ceasefire’: Air war historian Tom Cooper says conflict 'clear-cut victory' for India

[Bilal9]

Congratulations on believing in Indians. But the French and Russians did not believe in the Indians. Even Indians don't believe in Indians.

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This is no surprise, I have seen @Lulldapull brother always pull for Indian side.

No idea why.

It's OK - everyone is free to have his/her opinions I guess.

But a lot of proof (photographic and otherwise) will come out later and vindicate the truth, once the fog of war clears...

Right now the two sparring sides are in a sort of Gung-Ho "me Superman, you cockroach" mode. And a lot of evidence is being tightly controlled.

 

[Lulldapull]

Do not worry. Like Pakistan has declared 1965, 1971 and 1999 war as victory of Pakistan, Shahbaz Sharif has declared this conflict as the victory of Pakistan and has praise Asif Munir for giving befitting reply to India. Few propaganda paid articles will be pushed in some media and this humiliating shameful retreat shall be projected as the victory of Pakistan with the help of cheap 50 cent troll like @Jiangnan. Loser China and Pakistan has mastered this art for years.

Has Munir come out of bunker or he is still hiding.

Iran did da same to Israel, so many times just completely overwhelming their hyped up defenses.

When yous got only 500 very expensive AD missiles and yous faced with fukking 2000 ballistic missiles/ cruise missiles and drones coming at yous.......of course yous goin fail.

I believe AF is gone bhai........this Indo-pak flare up has completely rendered AF as very obsolete.

Why fly $60 million Rafale to launch a $1 million Scalp? When ground launched Brahmos does da same for far less no?

Chutiya Rafale ko kon maintain karay? and train chutiya pilutth for millions no?

Bilkul bukvaas logic!

told Sharma ages ago where warfare is headed......but surprisingly he didn't trust me.......lol

@Sharma Ji @Guru Dutt

 

[Lulldapull]

This is no surprise, I have seen @Lulldapull brother always pull for Indian side.

No idea why.

It's OK - everyone is free to have his/her opinions I guess.

But a lot of proof (photographic and otherwise) will come out later and vindicate the truth, once the fog of war clears...

Right now the two sparring sides are in a sort of Gung-Ho "me Superman, you cockroach" mode. And a lot of evidence is being tightly controlled.

One thing for sure Bilal bhai........AF is done n dusted now......

Sub khatam......as I predicted watching irani vs Zio drama and Ukraine disaster over last 5 years now.

AF ka janaza nikal gya!

I don't believe neither India nor Pak will buy combat jets anymore.

This conflict can be marked up confidently as the swan song of manned combat aviation now.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Iran did da same to Israel, so many times just completely overwhelming their hyped up defenses.

When yous got only 500 very expensive AD missiles and yous faced with fukking 2000 ballistic missiles/ cruise missiles and drones coming at yous.......of course yous goin fail.

I believe AF is gone bhai........this Indo-pak flare up has completely rendered AF as very obsolete.

Why fly $60 million Rafale to launch a $1 million Scalp? When ground launched Brahmos does da same for far less no?

Chutiya Rafale ko kon maintain karay? and train chutiya pilutth for millions no?

Bilkul bukvaas logic!

told Sharma ages ago where warfare is headed......but surprisingly he didn't trust me.......lol

@Sharma Ji @Guru Dutt

A solution to potent Air defence emerged in the form of saturated attack of swarm drone. Solution to such attack is emerging in form of Laser weapons. We have just operationalized one such system of 30 KW laser. 50, 100 and 300 kW system is in making. It can shoot a drone fone for one or 2 USD. We shot down some Chinese drome with our 30 KN drone.

 

[Lulldapull]

A solution to potent Air defence emerged in the form of saturated attack of swarm drone. Solution to such attack is emerging in form of Laser weapons. We have just operationalized one such system of 30 KW laser. 50, 100 and 300 kW system is in making. It can shoot a drone fone for one or 2 USD. We shot down some Chinese drome with our 30 KN drone.

Iraans fukked these Israelis time n time again by overwhelming their defenses almost every other day.

Not only does Iraans use the drones but then the cruise missiles come here n there and then low cost ballistic missiles soak up their mid tier interceptors and then finally their hypersonics come in with outmaneuvering warhead MIRVs......



Israeli/ US chutiye get overwhelmed every time man......

I've warned both Sharma n Doc and many others over the years, but they never understood nor acknowledged the fact that warfare is not what it used to be 25 years ago.

All legacy weaponry is obsolete Krishna.......its all gone bhai! the old way of warfare.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Iraans fukked these Israelis time n time again by overwhelming their defenses almost every other day.

Not only does Iraans use the drones but then the cruise missiles come here n there and then low cost ballistic missiles soak up their mid tier interceptors and then finally their hypersonics come in with outmaneuvering warhead MIRVs......



Israeli/ US chutiye get overwhelmed every time man......

I've warned both Sharma n Doc and many others over the years, but they never understood nor acknowledged the fact that warfare is not what it used to be 25 years ago.

All legacy weaponry is obsolete Krishna.......its all gone bhai! the old way of warfare.

India upgraded its old anti aircraft gun with radar and AI. It shot down many Pakistani drones as a low cost solution.

 

[Lulldapull]

India upgraded its old anti aircraft gun with radar and AI. It shot down many Pakistani drones as a low cost solution.

Bhai I was talking about manned aviation seriously being on borrowed time.

You know?

$30 million dollar ka aap Su-30 MKI rakho.......aur $2 million dollar kharch kar k pilutthh ko train karo, tay phir aap in dono useless cheezon key maintenance per paisa kharch karo? millions of dollars over the years of useful service life.

Oh bhai.......just launch Brahmos or Scalp/ Lora/ Blue Sparrow/ Neptune ground launch versions so you save money no?

Why waste a $100 million on a launch platform like an aircraft when you can just ground or sea launch it bhai......

Pata nahi Sharma/ Gurru Dutt/ Doc kidher murr gay hain?

Hopefully they understand the obvious reality here.

@Sharma Ji

 

[Sharma Ji]

Bhai I was talking about manned aviation seriously being on borrowed time.

You know?

$30 million dollar ka aap Su-30 MKI rakho.......aur $2 million dollar kharch kar k pilutthh ko train karo, tay phir aap in dono useless cheezon key maintenance per paisa kharch karo? millions of dollars over the years of useful service life.

Oh bhai.......just launch Brahmos or Scalp/ Lora/ Blue Sparrow/ Neptune ground launch versions so you save money no?

Why waste a $100 million on a launch platform like an aircraft when you can just ground or sea launch it bhai......

Pata nahi Sharma/ Gurru Dutt/ Doc kidher murr gay hain?

Hopefully they understand the obvious reality here.

@Sharma Ji

that way toh armour and mech infantry bhi useless hai if you look at Donbass situation, but are they really useless ?

 

[Krishna with Flute]

DRDO said after analysing the PL 15 that there is nothing to reverse engineer in it. Data link and seeker of PL 15 are far inferior to What India use in Astra. PL 15 study will help in devicing counter measures.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

DRDO said after analysing the PL 15 that there is nothing to reengineer in it. Data le and seeker are far inferior to What India use in Astra. PL 15 study will help in devicing counter measures.

Tech Bonanza For India! Recovers ‘Near Intact’ China’s PL-15 BVR Missile Likely Fired At IAF Jets​

By
Sakshi Tiwari
-
May 9, 2025

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​

Amid increasing hostilities between India and Pakistan, a missile wreckage believed to be a Chinese-origin PL-15 BVR missile has been recovered from Hoshiarpur in Punjab, India, on May 9.

Interestingly, Pakistan claimed to have shot down Indian combat jets, including Rafale fighters, using the PL-15 missile.

This is reportedly the second instance of a PL-15 wreckage found inside the country since the hostilities began after India conducted strikes on terror camps inside Pakistan as part of Operation Sindoor.

Notably, this is the first time the missile has been recovered near intact.

The Chinese-origin missile is compatible with the Pakistani Air Force’s (PAF) J-10C and JF-17 fighter jets, making it hard to ascertain which aircraft it was launched from. However, the missile would likely have travelled more than 100 kilometers before falling in a field in Hoshiarpur.

The Indian government has not officially acknowledged the recovery, even though it has accused Pakistan of targeting civilian and military infrastructure using drones and missiles, on the intervening night of May 8 and 9.

Earlier, reports ​

suggested that China urgently delivered the missile to Pakistan as tensions started to soar after the Pahalgam attack. In fact, the

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) earlier released pictures of its latest JF-17 Block III fighter aircraft armed with PL-15 days ahead of Operation Sindoor.

Thus, the hype surrounding this missile has been unparalleled, making the latest wreckage discovery even more interesting.​

Fully intact Chinese PL-15 long range air-to-air missile recovered from Hoshiarpur, Punjab. Obviously fired from a PAF jet, likely a JF-17—Failed to detonate.
Yesterday HQ-9B AD system gets smoked in Lahore by an Harop, now this. Tells you a bit about Chinese weapons quality pic.twitter.com/PUfTHSTILA
— Shiv Aroor (@ShivAroor) May 9, 2025

Squadron Leader Vijainder K. Thakur, an Indian Air Force veteran and a regular contributor to the EurAsian Times, said the missile was found intact, suggesting its self-destruct mechanism did not work.

“It is a tech bonanza for India and its allies. The missile has tech issues because the self-destruct didn’t work. It could have other issues. It’s not a mature weapon.”

The recovery of the undetonated missile could be a goldmine for India. Indian engineers and scientists will now likely unpack the missile, allowing an insight into the latest Chinese technology used in one of its most advanced air-to-air missiles.​

India would be able to study the missile’s propulsion, seeker, and datalink, among other things. Moreover, it would allow India to gain an understanding of how this Chinese-origin missile resists electronic jamming, giving further insight into how to redesign its own countermeasures to intercept the missile.

When asked how this will benefit India and what components it would be most interested in, Thakur said, “It has an AESA seeker, which India is yet to develop. Also, its dual pulse motor may interest DRDO, though DRDO has developed its own.”​

​

Wreckage of PL-15E found in Hoshiarpur, Punjab (Via X)

​

India could use this technology to reverse engineer the Chinese missile, or to develop more advanced Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM).

However, beyond that, it is a massive boost for the Indian military. Besides being used by Pakistan, the missile is also equipped on China’s fighter jets, including the J-10C and the fifth-generation J-20 Mighty Dragon.

Since China is perceived as one of India’s two biggest security threats due to the perpetual border conflict, getting hold of one of its primary long-range weapons is indeed a bonanza. It will allow India to build capability for air-to-air combat with the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).

Some experts and journalists, including Vishnu Som, floated the possibility of the missile being examined by the United States, which also remains at odds with China. However, it is a far-fetched prediction now, especially since the US Vice President J.D. Vance has distanced his country from the India-Pakistan clash.

This is also reminiscent of a similar incident concerning a US Black Hawk chopper, which crashed in Pakistan in 2011 during a US operation against Osama Bin Laden.



Soon after the raid, allegations surfaced that Pakistan had allowed Chinese engineers to examine the wreckage of the stealth Black Hawk. As per reports, Chinese officials were permitted to take photographs and samples of the components used in the Black Hawk.

If India decides to share the information with the US, it would be a full circle moment.​

The Chinese-origin PL-15 Missile​

The discovery of the missile is significant as it comes amid Pakistani claims that its J-10C, equipped with the PL-15E missile, shot down five Indian fighter jets, including three Rafale fighter jets.

Pakistani officials have endorsed the PL-15 as a formidable weapon that outmatches the Rafale and Meteor (BVR missile) combination.

A retired Pakistani official, Air Commodore Farooq, recently emphasized the “first-look, first-shot” capability of a J-10C equipped with a PL-15, claiming the J-10CE’s AESA radar and its PL-15E missile outmatch the Rafale’s RBE2 AESA radar and Meteor missile.

Several pro-Pakistani and pro-Chinese social media users have heaped praises on what they describe as a deadly combination of J-10C and PL-15 missiles.

“The PL-15E has a range of 150 kilometers. With the active phased array radar of the J-10CE, it can lock and shoot down advanced fighters such as Indian Rafales and Su-30MKI in BVR combat.”

China’s air combat strategies revolve around the PL-15. Developed by the state-owned Chinese aerospace corporation Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the PL-15 is a long-range, active radar-guided air-to-air missile.

It has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and a dual-pulsed solid-propellant rocket. With the addition of a two-way datalink, the AESA radar becomes an extremely adaptable weapon that allows for accurate targeting and mid-course corrections.​

​

PL-15E missile. (Via Platform X)

​

The missile blends maneuverability and speed. It can supposedly reach top speeds of Mach 4 and has an operational range of 200 to 300 kilometres. The missile is compatible with various combat jets, including the J-20, J-10C, J-15, J-16, J-11B, and JF-17 Block-III.

During the Zhuhai Air Show in November 2024, China also unveiled the PL-15E missile—a compact, foldable fin design variant of the PL15​

 

[Jiangnan]

I believe both the chutiya AF's have pretty much been relegated to second line duties.

Warfare has massively evolved bhai.

Evidently, 'Air Force' has lost 90% of its luster already no?

Welcome to the new war in the subcontinent too now no?

Please don't ask me. Ask Dassault, ask Russia.

 

[Jiangnan]

DRDO said after analysing the PL 15 that there is nothing to reverse engineer in it. Data link and seeker of PL 15 are far inferior to What India use in Astra. PL 15 study will help in devicing counter measures.

But, but. The Indian Air Force does not use Astra. and PL-15 can be purchased from the open market. There are no secrets.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

But, but. The Indian Air Force does not use Astra. and PL-15 can be purchased from the open market. There are no secrets.

Why would be purchase from Market when Pakistan has it. We have got 3 of them free along with the bonus of HQ 9 missile.

 

[Jiangnan]

Why would be purchase from Market when Pakistan has it. We have got 3 of them free along with the bonus of HQ 9 missile.

yes. Exchange with 280 million USD Rafale.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

yes. Exchange with 280 million USD Rafale.

Not with rafale but 2 J10, 8 JF17 and 2 F 16.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Iran did da same to Israel, so many times just completely overwhelming their hyped up defenses.

When yous got only 500 very expensive AD missiles and yous faced with fukking 2000 ballistic missiles/ cruise missiles and drones coming at yous.......of course yous goin fail.

I believe AF is gone bhai........this Indo-pak flare up has completely rendered AF as very obsolete.

Why fly $60 million Rafale to launch a $1 million Scalp? When ground launched Brahmos does da same for far less no?

Chutiya Rafale ko kon maintain karay? and train chutiya pilutth for millions no?

Bilkul bukvaas logic!

told Sharma ages ago where warfare is headed......but surprisingly he didn't trust me.......lol

@Sharma Ji @Guru Dutt

Fighter planes today are not those NOSE DIVERS of WW2 vinatge that dropped there bombs andt 2000-1500 feet and then left rather they drop glide bombs and anty bumker or anty runway bombs from STANDOFF ranges with just with a metere and half accurate to the target

not every mission uses a Scalp or bhromse its only for very very important and difficult target like main command and control bunker or main missile complex or some vital instalation of core value but glide bombs like GAURAV or SAAW or LGBs & PGMs like PAVEWAY II , GRIFFIN, Hammer Spice are the main force used by most fighters of IAF for clinical strike like Sepecat Jaguars , Mirage2000, Mig29 or Su30MKI or LCA or Dassault Rafale and these LGBs and PGMs carry thrice explosives than Bhramose or Scalp or KH-59 but cost less than 1/10th

and in this opration legacy Artilary was not even used as of yet only Carl Gustav's and 80mm &120mm mortars that too in limited area on LOC or the indian Air Defnce assets like SPYDER, AKAASH , BARAK-8, MR & LR and AAD-PAD & S400 in some casses

so the POINT IS IAF FINALLY Banged the NEUCLEAR BLUFF Pakistani estblishment and media since 1998 and when things seemd to be going into spiral USA Jumped in and brokerrd a CEASEFIRE ON INDIAN TERMS

and Pakistani was playing a diversionarry TRUCK KI BATTI and celbrating the bombing of all its Major Air Basses and terror training factories is celbrating Victory even after loss of most of its vital arial instalation and fighter aircraft and so called startegic assets

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Fighter planes today are not those NOSE DIVERS of WW2 vinatge that dropped there bombs andt 2000-1500 feet and then left rather they drop glide bombs and anty bumker or anty runway bombs from STANDOFF ranges with just with a metere and half accurate to the target

not every mission uses a Scalp or bhromse its only for very very important and difficult target like main command and control bunker or main missile complex or some vital instalation of core value but glide bombs like GAURAV or SAAW or LGBs & PGMs like PAVEWAY II , GRIFFIN, Hammer Spice are the main force used by most fighters of IAF for clinical strike like Sepecat Jaguars , Mirage2000, Mig29 or Su30MKI or LCA or Dassault Rafale and these LGBs and PGMs carry thrice explosives than Bhramose or Scalp or KH-59 but cost less than 1/10th

and in this opration legacy Artilary was not even used as of yet only Carl Gustav's and 80mm &120mm mortars that too in limited area on LOC or the indian Air Defnce assets like SPYDER, AKAASH , BARAK-8, MR & LR and AAD-PAD & S400 in some casses

so the POINT IS IAF FINALLY Banged the NEUCLEAR BLUFF Pakistani estblishment and media since 1998 and when things seemd to be going into spiral USA Jumped in and brokerrd a CEASEFIRE ON INDIAN TERMS

and Pakistani was playing a diversionarry TRUCK KI BATTI and celbrating the bombing of all its Major Air Basses and terror training factories is celbrating Victory even after loss of most of its vital arial instalation and fighter aircraft and so called startegic assets

There are news that Kairana nuke storage facility was hammered with Brahmos and spice 2000. It was not hit intentionally deep into the bunker else it would have resulted into disaster. Spice 2000 went deep before explosion and Brahmos hit entrance of the nuke storage facility. There is a lots of radiation in area and people are asked to vacates. Three earthquakes of Rictor scale 4.1 to 5.7 are noticed.

 

[Guru Dutt]

There are news that Kairana nuke storage facility was hammered with Brahmos and spice 2000. It is intentionally was not hit deep into the bunker else it would have resulted into disaster. Spice 2000 went deep before explosion and Brahmos hit entrance of the nuke storage facility. There is a lots of radiation in area and people are asked to vacates. Three earthquakes of Rictor scale 4.1 to 5.7 are noticed.

and thats the reason why Trump had to act despite his reluctence other wise he could loose the strategick balance a new economick meltdown could hve been unleashed in Indin Sub Continent

 

[Krishna with Flute]

and thats the reason why Trump had to act despite his reluctence other wise he could loose the strategick balance a new economick meltdown could hve been unleashed in Indin Sub Continent

They have nurtured one puppet which barks when they ask it to Bark. Pakistan foreign minister confessed that they did all dirty work on behalf of US and UK. It is a mercenary army. They only force against who they can win in unarmed civilians.

 

[Krishna with Flute]