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[H1]The great game: The KGB and Pakistan[/H1]
THIS country cannot last. This was the conclusion of Joseph Stalin as the Soviet Politburo examined the map of the two winged Pakistan that emerged from the Partition of the subcontinent in August 1947.
The Kremlin's "special relationship" on the subcontinent was with India, not Pakistan. Mrs Gandhi could not have won the Bangladesh war without New Delhi's Friendship Treaty with the USSR. December 1971 was a Cold War proxy battlefield in the rice paddy fields of East Bengal.

A quarter century later, General Secretary Brezhnev and KGB Chairman Yuri Andropov, the Russian spymaster who literally changed the map of the world, vindicated Stalin's prophecy. Most students of Pakistani politics are obsessed by the symbiotic relationship between the CIA, the Pentagon, the White House and the successive military dictatorships that have ruled Pakistan. My interest lies in the other great game played in the shadow world from Moscow Centre by the Soviet KGB, arguably the most ruthless and powerful secret intelligence agency on the planet at the time.
You still meet them in Moscow, St Petersburg, London, Geneva and Istanbul. Fluent Urdu or Pashto/Dari speakers, elegant Russians in their fifties now, men and women who once worked for various KGB residents in Kabul, Rawalpindi, Lahore and Karachi. The intelligence caches provided by KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin to an enigmatic English don at Corpus Christi College, deep in the Cambridge fens, exposed the KGB's systematic infiltration of Pakistan's GHQ and diplomatic corps, confirmed that Chairman Andropov and his agents of the KGB First Chief Directorate waged a secret war against my country from the moment of its creation.
This was the secret world's Great Game of the1980's, was the modern equivalent of the struggle between the late Victorian British Raj and the Romanov empire, fought in Afghanistan for the sake of the jewel in the crown. I had no idea at the time but, as a teenager in London, I attended several "Save Bhutto" campaign rallies for the first elected prime minister of Pakistan then awaiting the hangman's noose in Rawalpindi. I saw Mir Murtaza and Shahnawaz, the sons of Bhutto.
A seventeen year old knows nothing about the cynical calculations of intelligence agencies or the surreal logic of the Cold War. I was simply motivated by outrage that a military dictator named Zia had usurped the power that the people of Pakistan had bestowed on ZA Bhutto, my boyhood hero for whom I had sworn to dedicate my life as a diplomat, to learn French, Spanish German, Russian and Arabic in a lifelong quest that still continues. But on April 4th 1979, when Zia hanged Bhutto, something died in me. I vowed never to work for any government of Pakistan ruled by a military dictator and I never did.
The Kremlin's "special relationship" on the subcontinent was with India, not Pakistan. Mrs Gandhi could not have won the Bangladesh war without New Delhi's Friendship Treaty with the USSR. December 1971 was a Cold War proxy battlefield in the rice paddy fields of East Bengal. Andropov distrusted ZA Bhutto, thought him a Chinese agent of influence ever since he joined Ayub Khan's Cabinet as foreign minister in 1964, was disgusted by the idea of a Berkeley–Oxford educated Sindhi feudal landowner donning a Mao cap and waving his little Green Book. Bhutto visited Moscow twice but neither Brezhnev, Podgornyn or Gromyko reciprocated with a state visit to Islamabad. The Kremlin distrusted Bhutto's new friends and patrons in the Islamic world – the Pahlavi Shah of Iran, Saudi King Faisal, Colonel Gaddafi, the Gulf oil shaikhs. They were right. Mr Bhutto was no Marxist Leninist ideologue but a student of Machiavelli, Napoleon and Sun Tzu. He had no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, only permanent interests. His cynicism cost him his life.
 
As young teenagers growing up in Karachi in the 1980's, the first time this Afghani war smacked me in the face was when we drove by the Regal area in Saddar, a day later in the aftermath of the car bomb which the Afghani KHAD intelligence carried out. That was the first time it occurred to me that we were at war with the Soviets. Dozens of shops were totally destroyed guys. A 100 odd people were killed and wounded, just bystanders. It was a horrible scene. There was a huge crater where the car bomb went off. I'll never forget that.
 
The first and most serious harm the Soviets did was to use various proxies to dismember our country in 1971. I find it outrageous how many naive Pakistanis remain so indifferent to the event of 1971 as if nothing happened. Let their neighbor take over half of their property and see how they feel about it. That is ignorance without limits. They do not realize how demoralizing and strategic loss it is for a country to lose half of its territory. The victory in 1971 massively encouraged the Soviets to go ahead with their Afghan adventure in 1979. If there had been no 1971, there would have never been a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and today's mess.
 
The first and most serious harm the Soviets did was to use various proxies to dismember our country in 1971. I find it outrageous how many naive Pakistanis remain so indifferent to the event of 1971 as if nothing happened. Let their neighbor take over half of their property and see how they feel about it. That is ignorance without limits. They do not realize how demoralizing and strategic loss it is for a country to lose half of its territory. The victory in 1971 massively encouraged the Soviets to go ahead with their Afghan adventure in 1979. If there had been no 1971, there would have never been a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and today's mess.
I wouldn't call losing East Pakistan as losing half of the country atleast in land area. Bangladesh is only slightly larger than Sindh province.
 
I wouldn't call losing East Pakistan as losing half of the country atleast in land area. Bangladesh is only slightly larger than Sindh province.
But it was the entire eastern wing. That is half in the strategic sense, not to mention more than half of the population and other strategic resources, plus access to the strategic Bay of Bengal. People in Punjab fight over two-inch land with their neighbors, and we are talking about 55,000 sq miles. The mass decline of education has blinded our people.
 
But it was the entire eastern wing. That is half in the strategic sense, not to mention more than half of the population and other strategic resources, plus access to the strategic Bay of Bengal. People in Punjab fight over two-inch land with their neighbors, and we are talking about 55,000 sq miles. The mass decline of education has blinded our people.
Yes back then, East Pakistan had a larger population than West Pakistan. Precisely why Mujib should have been PM.

By the way my old uncle who is now in his 70s, says people back then used to hate USSR the same way people nowadays hate USA. lol.
 
Yes back then, East Pakistan had a larger population than West Pakistan. Precisely why Mujib should have been PM.

By the way my old uncle who is now in his 70s, says people back then used to hate USSR the same way people nowadays hate USA. lol.
The USSR created many long-lasting problems, which we still face today. However, today's Russia is not the same, as it does not carry the USSR ideology. Today's Russia accepts its past mistakes, and it can be our good strategic partner.
 
USSR has created many long-lasting problems which we are still facing today. However, today's Russia is not the same as they do not carry the USSR ideology. Today's Russia accepts their past mistakes and Russian be our good strategic partner.
Exactly Pakistan and the Muslim World needs reproachment with Russia. We gave USSR their punishment when we destroyed their empire. And Good Riddance too.

Today's Russia is not yesterday's USSR. That is a fact.
 
I wouldn't call losing East Pakistan as losing half of the country atleast in land area. Bangladesh is only slightly larger than Sindh province.
They didn't want to be wid us bro.......they saw us as some alien culture. Vurna ye sub kyun hota no?

Between bungladesh and my village in Harripur, wes talking more than 2000 miles no? Imagine dat?......lol

Dis da problem bro......
 
They didn't want to be wid us bro.......they saw us as some alien culture. Vurna ye sub kyun hota no?

Between bungladesh and my village in Harripur, wes talking more than 2000 miles no? Imagine dat?......lol

Dis da problem bro......
It was as if you were the one who decided to separate East from West. You were the decision-maker at that time.
 
I'm just sayin bro......kithaan saada potohar plateau, aur kithaan Dhaka no?...... :p

Worlds apart!
A modern state doesn't work in the villagers' analogy. Look at Alaska, Siberia, Greenland, Sabah-Sarwak in Malaysia, and Indonesia, where one part is a thousand or more miles apart from the other end. The army made a blunder and justified it later by teaching fairytales to the naive population, which they still do. They are again destroying this country the same way. Look, they jailed Imran Khan just because someone told the court that the marriage was invalid; otherwise, it is an entirely legal marriage in any civil law. Our people are ignorant and pass their exams by cheating. These uneducated or miseducated people will believe anything they are told by the establishment.
 
A modern state doesn't work in the villagers' analogy. Look at Alaska, Siberia, Greenland, Sabah-Sarwak in Malaysia, and Indonesia, where one part is a thousand or more miles apart from the other end. The army made a blunder and justified it later by teaching fairytales to the naive population, which they still do. They are again destroying this country the same way. Look, they jailed Imran Khan just because someone told the court that the marriage was invalid; otherwise, it is an entirely legal marriage in any civil law. Our people are ignorant and pass their exams by cheating. These uneducated or miseducated people will believe anything they are told by the establishment.
My friend Taimoor's dad wuz there as an NCO in SSG in Khulna.These guys lived next to us in Clifton block 2. He is an upright standup fella representing our military. Now a quiet man retired and at peace with himself He told me stories you can't even imagine.

Can you imagine one of us raping, pillaging murdering?willy nilly, despite our training?/ family backgrounds?

I can't!
 
My friend Taimoor's dad wuz there as an NCO in SSG in Khulna.These guys lived next to us in Clifton block 2. He is an upright standup fella representing our military. Now a quiet man retired and at peace with himself He told me stories you can't even imagine.

Can you imagine one of us raping, pillaging murdering?willy nilly, despite our training?/ family backgrounds?

I can't!
My father was in the Navy at that time, and he, too, was based in EP. I know the facts. There would not have been any issues if they had only handed over power to the election winner, Mujib. They did not, and they are still doing the same with Imran Khan.
 
My father was in the Navy at that time, and he, too, was based in EP. I know the facts. There would not have been any issues if they had only handed over power to the election winner, Mujib. They did not, and they are still doing the same with Imran Khan.
We never killed, we never raped we never pillaged we never burnt down their villages.

Can you imagine mostly mazhabi/ indoctrinated log doing these things in our army?

No way bro!.... A mazhabi guy can never do those things were accused of doing in East Pakistan.

We've been framed. From day dot.
 
We never killed, we never raped we never pillaged we never burnt down their villages.

Can you imagine mostly mazhabi log doing these things in our army?

No way bro!

We've been framed. From day dot.
The point is that the semi-educated Jarnails didn't want to hand over power to a popular civilian whom, despite election win, they could not control like a puppet. Imran Khan has already proved this point to everyone.
 
We never killed, we never raped we never pillaged we never burnt down their villages.

Can you imagine mostly mazhabi/ indoctrinated log doing these things in our army?

No way bro!.... A mazhabi guy can never do those things were accused of doing in East Pakistan.

We've been framed. From day dot.

You must come to the point of understanding and realize that the top general class is under the foot of Washington, this is not up for argument at this point anymore, it is a known fact and easily proven.

Can you imagine mostly mazhabi/ indoctrinated log doing these things in our army?
You cannot blame the regular army folks who are mostly proud and strong Muslims doing what they think is to protect Pakistan. The elite generals are sold out. Come to and realize this conclusion.
 
W
You must come to the point of understanding and realize that the top general class is under the foot of Washington, this is not up for argument at this point anymore, it is a known fact and easily proven.


You cannot blame the regular army folks who are mostly proud and strong Muslims doing what they think is to protect Pakistan. They elite generals are sold out. Come to and realize this conclusion.
We killed just a few hundred trouble maker rioters in totality and the communists and Indians said we killed and raped millions!

We were told to lose our eastern half of our country. Everyone’s been fooled into believing propaganda.


Nixon haramzada betrayed us as per yahya khan and Gen Niazi.

We’ve been betrayed! Our army never did nothing it’s being accused of.

How could just 50k regulars rape 3 million women in a period of 6 months? Its impossible!

We’ve been had guys.
 
You must come to the point of understanding and realize that the top general class is under the foot of Washington, this is not up for argument at this point anymore, it is a known fact and easily proven.


You cannot blame the regular army folks who are mostly proud and strong Muslims doing what they think is to protect Pakistan. The elite generals are sold out. Come to and realize this conclusion.
When you read the books written by Henry Kissinger and another American statesman, you will know how much our jarnails are sold out to the Yankees. This must stop if we want to save the country.
 
W

We killed just a few hundred trouble maker rioters in totality and the communists and Indians said we killed and raped millions!

We were told to lose our eastern half of our country. Everyone’s been fooled into believing propaganda.

Nixon haramzada betrayed us as per yahya khan and Gen Niazi.

We’ve been betrayed! Our army never did nothing it’s being accused of.
I'd like you to please read our own Hamoodur Rehman commission report, which is still sealed by the army from being published. A lot more happened than you know.
 
I'd like you to please read our own Hamoodur Rehman commission report, which is still sealed by the army from being published. A lot more happened than you know.
Mathematically speaking, someone had suggested in the past that the then West Pakistani forces would have to have been killing/raping someone every 2 minutes for the claimed numbers of millions to be reached.
 
A modern state doesn't work in the villagers' analogy. Look at Alaska, Siberia, Greenland, Sabah-Sarwak in Malaysia, and Indonesia, where one part is a thousand or more miles apart from the other end. The army made a blunder and justified it later by teaching fairytales to the naive population, which they still do. They are again destroying this country the same way. Look, they jailed Imran Khan just because someone told the court that the marriage was invalid; otherwise, it is an entirely legal marriage in any civil law. Our people are ignorant and pass their exams by cheating. These uneducated or miseducated people will believe anything they are told by the establishment.
When its not Jinnah's fault he gave us something, and we failed to make it work. lol.
 
Mathematically speaking, someone had suggested in the past that the then West Pakistani forces would have to have been killing/raping someone every 2 minutes for the claimed numbers of millions to be reached.
That number claim was originally fabricated iby Soviet KGB who used to manage the exiled BD government based in India in 1971. We need to disregard the number. Even one rape is too many.
 
When its not Jinnah's fault he gave us something, and we failed to make it work. lol.
Jinnah has been watching how his hard earned nation is being doomed by semi-educated government employees. Which modern and civilized country is ruled by Army who are in fact government employees paid by public ? Such countries would be Uganda or Egypt in Africa.
 
Jinnah has been watching how his hard earned nation is being doomed by semi-educated government employees. Which modern and civilized country is ruled by Army who are in fact government employees paid by public ? Such countries would be Uganda or Egypt in Africa.
Almost ALL modern states are ruled by a traditional deeply rooted bureaucracy or a Military Industrial Complex with strict red lines. What sets the successful ones apart is the rule of law. The failed and messed up ones have no concept of law and order, punishing crooks/thieves/mafias, discipline, transparency or priortization of important interests.

It would be foolish to assume that a state like Pakistan with piles and piles of all types deadly weapons is, or should be, left to the random whims of a poorly educatedd populace.
 
Almost ALL modern states are ruled by a traditional deeply rooted bureaucracy or a Military Industrial Complex with strict red lines. What sets the successful ones apart is the rule of law. The failed and messed up ones have no concept of law and order, punishing crooks/thieves/mafias, discipline, transparency or priortization of important interests.

It would be foolish to assume that a state like Pakistan with piles and piles of all types deadly weapons is, or should be, left to the random whims of a poorly educatedd populace.
Military officers in Pakistan, in general, are undereducated (usually have a BA equivalence). Instead, the Civil service has more educated people, many with western Ph.D, but they work under incompetent ministers groomed by generals.
I know this fact firsthand. Real-educated Pakistanis don't live in Pakistan. I was lucky to realize that fact much earlier and left the country earlier than many.
Of course, if you ask this question to plain BA degree holders, they won't know that as it sounds Chinese to them. In academia, a BA is almost like a high school diploma.
 
Military officers in Pakistan, in general, are undereducated (usually have a BA equivalence). Instead, the Civil service has more educated people, many with western Ph.D, but they work under incompetent ministers groomed by generals.
I know this fact firsthand. Real-educated Pakistanis don't live in Pakistan. I was lucky to realize that fact much earlier and left the country earlier than many.
Of course, if you ask this question to plain BA degree holders, they won't know that as it sounds Chinese to them. In academia, a BA is almost like a high school diploma.
Regardless, back to the topic. Its good we destroyed the USSR empire. Good Riddance.
 
The first and most serious harm the Soviets did was to use various proxies to dismember our country in 1971. I find it outrageous how many naive Pakistanis remain so indifferent to the event of 1971 as if nothing happened. Let their neighbor take over half of their property and see how they feel about it. That is ignorance without limits. They do not realize how demoralizing and strategic loss it is for a country to lose half of its territory. The victory in 1971 massively encouraged the Soviets to go ahead with their Afghan adventure in 1979. If there had been no 1971, there would have never been a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and today's mess.
Here, Let me educate you.

What senior and authoritative figures on Pakistani matters and members of the original PDF, @Indus Pakistan, @RazPak aka @lastofthepatriots and @django say?

Only one has been quoted but they all say the same thing.

django said:
No Pakistani feels any connection with bangladesh, I say good riddance.

django said:
Bangla is as alien too me as tamil nadu is, they kept their earnings we infact where giving them a portion of our share, good riddance i say.
 
img_20230709_215104-jpg.937972

Huh? Are you still talking about that?
 
Here, Let me educate you.

What senior and authoritative figures on Pakistani matters and members of the original PDF, @Indus Pakistan, @RazPak aka @lastofthepatriots and @django say?

Only one has been quoted but they all say the same thing.

Everyone has an opinion, just like a rear end. I have them too.

What does it matter?

No one's word is gospel.

I am surprised in that - you with an Indian flag are propagating these divisive opinions (and re-inforcing them), trying to drive a wedge between the friendly people of Bangladesh and Pakistan. No amount of misguided Indian scheming and chicanery - which has been tried endlessly since the turn of the last century has been successful.
 

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