[🇵🇰] The Great Game: The Soviet KGB And Pakistan

[Old School]

You must come to the point of understanding and realize that the top general class is under the foot of Washington, this is not up for argument at this point anymore, it is a known fact and easily proven.


You cannot blame the regular army folks who are mostly proud and strong Muslims doing what they think is to protect Pakistan. The elite generals are sold out. Come to and realize this conclusion.

When you read the books written by Henry Kissinger and another American statesman, you will know how much our jarnails are sold out to the Yankees. This must stop if we want to save the country.

 

[Old School]

W

We killed just a few hundred trouble maker rioters in totality and the communists and Indians said we killed and raped millions!

We were told to lose our eastern half of our country. Everyone’s been fooled into believing propaganda.

Nixon haramzada betrayed us as per yahya khan and Gen Niazi.

We’ve been betrayed! Our army never did nothing it’s being accused of.

I'd like you to please read our own Hamoodur Rehman commission report, which is still sealed by the army from being published. A lot more happened than you know.

 

[Delta2]

Only if we knew about some of the conversations of some Pakistani generals in the 1950s!

 

[Delta2]

I'd like you to please read our own Hamoodur Rehman commission report, which is still sealed by the army from being published. A lot more happened than you know.

Mathematically speaking, someone had suggested in the past that the then West Pakistani forces would have to have been killing/raping someone every 2 minutes for the claimed numbers of millions to be reached.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

A modern state doesn't work in the villagers' analogy. Look at Alaska, Siberia, Greenland, Sabah-Sarwak in Malaysia, and Indonesia, where one part is a thousand or more miles apart from the other end. The army made a blunder and justified it later by teaching fairytales to the naive population, which they still do. They are again destroying this country the same way. Look, they jailed Imran Khan just because someone told the court that the marriage was invalid; otherwise, it is an entirely legal marriage in any civil law. Our people are ignorant and pass their exams by cheating. These uneducated or miseducated people will believe anything they are told by the establishment.

When its not Jinnah's fault he gave us something, and we failed to make it work. lol.

 

[Old School]

Mathematically speaking, someone had suggested in the past that the then West Pakistani forces would have to have been killing/raping someone every 2 minutes for the claimed numbers of millions to be reached.

That number claim was originally fabricated iby Soviet KGB who used to manage the exiled BD government based in India in 1971. We need to disregard the number. Even one rape is too many.

 

[Old School]

When its not Jinnah's fault he gave us something, and we failed to make it work. lol.

Jinnah has been watching how his hard earned nation is being doomed by semi-educated government employees. Which modern and civilized country is ruled by Army who are in fact government employees paid by public ? Such countries would be Uganda or Egypt in Africa.

 

[Delta2]

That number claim was originally fabricated iby Soviet KGB who used to manage the exiled BD government based in India in 1971. We need to disregard the number. Even one rape is too many.

If a claim of millions rapes and murders is false, then surely a claim of one rape or murder can be false too.

It really is the principle.

 

[Delta2]

Jinnah has been watching how his hard earned nation is being doomed by semi-educated government employees. Which modern and civilized country is ruled by Army who are in fact government employees paid by public ? Such countries would be Uganda or Egypt in Africa.

Almost ALL modern states are ruled by a traditional deeply rooted bureaucracy or a Military Industrial Complex with strict red lines. What sets the successful ones apart is the rule of law. The failed and messed up ones have no concept of law and order, punishing crooks/thieves/mafias, discipline, transparency or priortization of important interests.

It would be foolish to assume that a state like Pakistan with piles and piles of all types deadly weapons is, or should be, left to the random whims of a poorly educatedd populace.

 

[Old School]

Almost ALL modern states are ruled by a traditional deeply rooted bureaucracy or a Military Industrial Complex with strict red lines. What sets the successful ones apart is the rule of law. The failed and messed up ones have no concept of law and order, punishing crooks/thieves/mafias, discipline, transparency or priortization of important interests.

It would be foolish to assume that a state like Pakistan with piles and piles of all types deadly weapons is, or should be, left to the random whims of a poorly educatedd populace.

Military officers in Pakistan, in general, are undereducated (usually have a BA equivalence). Instead, the Civil service has more educated people, many with western Ph.D, but they work under incompetent ministers groomed by generals.
I know this fact firsthand. Real-educated Pakistanis don't live in Pakistan. I was lucky to realize that fact much earlier and left the country earlier than many.
Of course, if you ask this question to plain BA degree holders, they won't know that as it sounds Chinese to them. In academia, a BA is almost like a high school diploma.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Military officers in Pakistan, in general, are undereducated (usually have a BA equivalence). Instead, the Civil service has more educated people, many with western Ph.D, but they work under incompetent ministers groomed by generals.
I know this fact firsthand. Real-educated Pakistanis don't live in Pakistan. I was lucky to realize that fact much earlier and left the country earlier than many.
Of course, if you ask this question to plain BA degree holders, they won't know that as it sounds Chinese to them. In academia, a BA is almost like a high school diploma.

Regardless, back to the topic. Its good we destroyed the USSR empire. Good Riddance.

 

[Suresh Naresh]

The first and most serious harm the Soviets did was to use various proxies to dismember our country in 1971. I find it outrageous how many naive Pakistanis remain so indifferent to the event of 1971 as if nothing happened. Let their neighbor take over half of their property and see how they feel about it. That is ignorance without limits. They do not realize how demoralizing and strategic loss it is for a country to lose half of its territory. The victory in 1971 massively encouraged the Soviets to go ahead with their Afghan adventure in 1979. If there had been no 1971, there would have never been a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and today's mess.

Here, Let me educate you.

What senior and authoritative figures on Pakistani matters and members of the original PDF, @Indus Pakistan, @RazPak aka @lastofthepatriots and @django say?

Only one has been quoted but they all say the same thing.

No Pakistani feels any connection with bangladesh, I say good riddance.

Bangla is as alien too me as tamil nadu is, they kept their earnings we infact where giving them a portion of our share, good riddance i say.

 

[Suresh Naresh]

1971

Huh? Are you still talking about that?

 

[Bilal9]

Here, Let me educate you.

What senior and authoritative figures on Pakistani matters and members of the original PDF, @Indus Pakistan, @RazPak aka @lastofthepatriots and @django say?

Only one has been quoted but they all say the same thing.

Everyone has an opinion, just like a rear end. I have them too.

What does it matter?

No one's word is gospel.

I am surprised in that - you with an Indian flag are propagating these divisive opinions (and re-inforcing them), trying to drive a wedge between the friendly people of Bangladesh and Pakistan. No amount of misguided Indian scheming and chicanery - which has been tried endlessly since the turn of the last century has been successful.

 

[Mainerik]

@Guru Dutt

 

[Guru Dutt]

[H1]The great game: The KGB and Pakistan[/H1]
THIS country cannot last. This was the conclusion of Joseph Stalin as the Soviet Politburo examined the map of the two winged Pakistan that emerged from the Partition of the subcontinent in August 1947.
The Kremlin's "special relationship" on the subcontinent was with India, not Pakistan. Mrs Gandhi could not have won the Bangladesh war without New Delhi's Friendship Treaty with the USSR. December 1971 was a Cold War proxy battlefield in the rice paddy fields of East Bengal.
A quarter century later, General Secretary Brezhnev and KGB Chairman Yuri Andropov, the Russian spymaster who literally changed the map of the world, vindicated Stalin's prophecy. Most students of Pakistani politics are obsessed by the symbiotic relationship between the CIA, the Pentagon, the White House and the successive military dictatorships that have ruled Pakistan. My interest lies in the other great game played in the shadow world from Moscow Centre by the Soviet KGB, arguably the most ruthless and powerful secret intelligence agency on the planet at the time.
You still meet them in Moscow, St Petersburg, London, Geneva and Istanbul. Fluent Urdu or Pashto/Dari speakers, elegant Russians in their fifties now, men and women who once worked for various KGB residents in Kabul, Rawalpindi, Lahore and Karachi. The intelligence caches provided by KGB archivist Vasili Mitrokhin to an enigmatic English don at Corpus Christi College, deep in the Cambridge fens, exposed the KGB's systematic infiltration of Pakistan's GHQ and diplomatic corps, confirmed that Chairman Andropov and his agents of the KGB First Chief Directorate waged a secret war against my country from the moment of its creation.
This was the secret world's Great Game of the1980's, was the modern equivalent of the struggle between the late Victorian British Raj and the Romanov empire, fought in Afghanistan for the sake of the jewel in the crown. I had no idea at the time but, as a teenager in London, I attended several "Save Bhutto" campaign rallies for the first elected prime minister of Pakistan then awaiting the hangman's noose in Rawalpindi. I saw Mir Murtaza and Shahnawaz, the sons of Bhutto.
A seventeen year old knows nothing about the cynical calculations of intelligence agencies or the surreal logic of the Cold War. I was simply motivated by outrage that a military dictator named Zia had usurped the power that the people of Pakistan had bestowed on ZA Bhutto, my boyhood hero for whom I had sworn to dedicate my life as a diplomat, to learn French, Spanish German, Russian and Arabic in a lifelong quest that still continues. But on April 4th 1979, when Zia hanged Bhutto, something died in me. I vowed never to work for any government of Pakistan ruled by a military dictator and I never did.
The Kremlin's "special relationship" on the subcontinent was with India, not Pakistan. Mrs Gandhi could not have won the Bangladesh war without New Delhi's Friendship Treaty with the USSR. December 1971 was a Cold War proxy battlefield in the rice paddy fields of East Bengal. Andropov distrusted ZA Bhutto, thought him a Chinese agent of influence ever since he joined Ayub Khan's Cabinet as foreign minister in 1964, was disgusted by the idea of a Berkeley–Oxford educated Sindhi feudal landowner donning a Mao cap and waving his little Green Book. Bhutto visited Moscow twice but neither Brezhnev, Podgornyn or Gromyko reciprocated with a state visit to Islamabad. The Kremlin distrusted Bhutto's new friends and patrons in the Islamic world – the Pahlavi Shah of Iran, Saudi King Faisal, Colonel Gaddafi, the Gulf oil shaikhs. They were right. Mr Bhutto was no Marxist Leninist ideologue but a student of Machiavelli, Napoleon and Sun Tzu. He had no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, only permanent interests. His cynicism cost him his life.

three things

1. USSR was a failed project even in the last year of Josph Stalin himslef but some hoe lingerred on for another four decades but it was more deu to Paranoia against Global establishment which they called CAPITALISM which we now call DEEP STATE which looks more scialist than actual communists

2. As for the Great Game about Pakistan had more to do with British Crown and its JEWEL IN THE CROWN INDIA than Pakistanitself which actualy was createdas a buffer zone between Afghanistanand India after FALL OF BERLIN when British House of Lords was petrified about Loosing India since Two new Communist countries were carved out of Iran aftr Soviet southern armies came defeting the Nazi in CENTRAL AESA /CAUCUSSES as they had given up on Afghanistan wich already had a communist leaning govement and since they had great relations and Hold in Monarchy ruled Iran/Persia then

3. The Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto was niether a great Strategist nor a great Marxist/Scocialist ... we was a Cunning Barister who was born to Ex Diwan of Nawab of Junaghar & British Stooge Sir Shh Nawaaz Bhutto and a "Tawaiaf called LAKHI BAI" who were highly regarded as one of the actual fouding Fathers of "Two Ntion Theory" or how to rule over emotional and uneducated muslims by showing them Prnoia of EVIL HINDU ......

Z A Bhutto did the same who once called General Ayub Khan DADDY used poor Landless Muslim's that they will be gifted all those lands on which they worked and became a Mass leader on this propgandda and Got the power but when he was asked to diliver power he then created Bogey of Evil India and whole Pakistani nation was thrown into 1965 and then 1971 wars

And when he became absloute power icon he devised masterPlan To Make ATOM BOMB & use Afghanistan as STRATEGIC DEAPTH and used SOVIETS WANT WARM WATERS OF PAKISTAN BOGEY & for rest 50 years Pakistani Armed forces/ULEMMA or so called MILTARRY-MULLAH ALLIANCE and Beurocracy and Jeudicarry and WADHERRA-POLITICIAN class is milking Pakistani nation and results are in front of you

 

[Lulldapull]

three things

1. USSR was a failed project even in the last year of Josph Stalin himslef but some hoe lingerred on for another four decades but it was more deu to Paranoia against Global establishment which they called CAPITALISM which we now call DEEP STATE which looks more scialist than actual communists

2. As for the Great Game about Pakistan had more to do with British Crown and its JEWEL IN THE CROWN INDIA than Pakistanitself which actualy was createdas a buffer zone between Afghanistanand India after FALL OF BERLIN when British House of Lords was petrified about Loosing India since Two new Communist countries were carved out of Iran aftr Soviet southern armies came defeting the Nazi in CENTRAL AESA /CAUCUSSES as they had given up on Afghanistan wich already had a communist leaning govement and since they had great relations and Hold in Monarchy ruled Iran/Persia then

3. The Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto was niether a great Strategist nor a great Marxist/Scocialist ... we was a Cunning Barister who was born to Ex Diwan of Nawab of Junaghar & British Stooge Sir Shh Nawaaz Bhutto and a "Tawaiaf called LAKHI BAI" who were highly regarded as one of the actual fouding Fathers of "Two Ntion Theory" or how to rule over emotional and uneducated muslims by showing them Prnoia of EVIL HINDU ......

Z A Bhutto did the same who once called General Ayub Khan DADDY used poor Landless Muslim's that they will be gifted all those lands on which they worked and became a Mass leader on this propgandda and Got the power but when he was asked to diliver power he then created Bogey of Evil India and whole Pakistani nation was thrown into 1965 and then 1971 wars

And when he became absloute power icon he devised masterPlan To Make ATOM BOMB & use Afghanistan as STRATEGIC DEAPTH and used SOVIETS WANT WARM WATERS OF PAKISTAN BOGEY & for rest 50 years Pakistani Armed forces/ULEMMA or so called MILTARRY-MULLAH ALLIANCE and Beurocracy and Jeudicarry and WADHERRA-POLITICIAN class is milking Pakistani nation and results are in front of you

Oh paeeee da CIA is incharge of Pakistan.

Nothing else makes sense!

 

[Guru Dutt]

Oh paeeee da CIA is incharge of Pakistan.

Nothing else makes sense!

Did CIA Force yu to go and Kill your own people like Pakhtoon Khudai Khidmdgaars and ANP guy's and even M A Jinnah's own sister ??

common man you know very well had Pakistany elite really wanted to make Pakistan a developing and great nation instead of always keep the fire burning gainst India they would have from Day one inversted in making Steel Mills , Big Power plants , mega factories or providding basic education ,sanitation and helth services and above all equality before law and speedy justice and democracy like how Indian ruling elite worked and despite all kinds of political and beurocratic incompetency & corruption today Pakistan would be far far ahead of even nations like South Korea and India combined but just look at the diffrences between the two nation and how both Treat or get treated by same CIA or US DEEP STATE and its not becue of so called Great game

 

[Lulldapull]

Did CIA Force yu to go and Kill your own people like Pakhtoon Khudai Khidmdgaars and ANP guy's and even M A Jinnah's own sister ??

common man you know very well had Pakistany elite really wanted to make Pakistan a developing and great nation instead of always keep the fire burning gainst India they would have from Day one inversted in making Steel Mills , Big Power plants , mega factories or providding basic education ,sanitation and helth services and above all equality before law and speedy justice and democracy like how Indian ruling elite worked and despite all kinds of political and beurocratic incompetency & corruption look at the diffrences between the two nation and how both treat or get treated by same CIA or US DEEP STATE

Oh paeeee we helpless no?

We under direct neo-colonial administration.

Anybody tries to change something he ends up dead!

 

[Sharma Ji]

three things

1. USSR was a failed project even in the last year of Josph Stalin himslef but some hoe lingerred on for another four decades but it was more deu to Paranoia against Global establishment which they called CAPITALISM which we now call DEEP STATE which looks more scialist than actual communists

2. As for the Great Game about Pakistan had more to do with British Crown and its JEWEL IN THE CROWN INDIA than Pakistanitself which actualy was createdas a buffer zone between Afghanistanand India after FALL OF BERLIN when British House of Lords was petrified about Loosing India since Two new Communist countries were carved out of Iran aftr Soviet southern armies came defeting the Nazi in CENTRAL AESA /CAUCUSSES as they had given up on Afghanistan wich already had a communist leaning govement and since they had great relations and Hold in Monarchy ruled Iran/Persia then

3. The Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto was niether a great Strategist nor a great Marxist/Scocialist ... we was a Cunning Barister who was born to Ex Diwan of Nawab of Junaghar & British Stooge Sir Shh Nawaaz Bhutto and a "Tawaiaf called LAKHI BAI" who were highly regarded as one of the actual fouding Fathers of "Two Ntion Theory" or how to rule over emotional and uneducated muslims by showing them Prnoia of EVIL HINDU ......

Z A Bhutto did the same who once called General Ayub Khan DADDY used poor Landless Muslim's that they will be gifted all those lands on which they worked and became a Mass leader on this propgandda and Got the power but when he was asked to diliver power he then created Bogey of Evil India and whole Pakistani nation was thrown into 1965 and then 1971 wars

And when he became absloute power icon he devised masterPlan To Make ATOM BOMB & use Afghanistan as STRATEGIC DEAPTH and used SOVIETS WANT WARM WATERS OF PAKISTAN BOGEY & for rest 50 years Pakistani Armed forces/ULEMMA or so called MILTARRY-MULLAH ALLIANCE and Beurocracy and Jeudicarry and WADHERRA-POLITICIAN class is milking Pakistani nation and results are in front of you

ek saal purana post hai uska

aap abhi apni magn nidra se uthe ho, kumbhkarand !