[🇪🇬] Egypt’s purchase of a Chinese fighter jet is a reminder Cold War tactics are back in the Middle East

[Egyptian]

Date of Event: Oct 18, 2024

Source : https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/10/egypts-purchase-chinese-fighter-jet-reminder-cold-war-tactics-are-back-middle-east Short Summary: The Egyptian army is a formidable force lacking air superiority capabilities to match its size and ambitions. China understood this predicament and offered to help.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/10/egypts-purchase-chinese-fighter-jet-reminder-cold-war-tactics-are-back-middle-east

The reported agreement for Egypt to buy the Chinese Chengdu J-10C 4.5 generation fighter jets is part of a broader shift from focusing on modernizing ground troops to bolstering the air force. The details of the deal have not yet been published. Nonetheless, it reveals Egypt has two motivations beyond backing its arsenal with another fighter jet.

Elusive Western technology​

The most important motivation for Egypt’s military diversification strategy (and the biggest source of frustration) is the perceived Western technology starvation.

A quick examination of the map around Egypt shows that the most significant perceived threats to its national security are located in remote places where Egypt doesn’t traditionally enjoy ground troops’ presence. These include Ethiopia, the Southern Red Sea, Libya and the vulnerability a potential Israel–Iran regional war would create. From the generals’ perspective in Cairo, this list is more than a catalyst to build a modern and capable long arm.

@Jiangnan @LegionnairE @ThunderCat @Lulldapull @TheNewb77 @PakistanProud @Sharma Ji @Vsdoc @Krishna with Flute @Bilal9 @Saif

 

[Jiangnan]

This is too regrettable. Our Indian friend said that Egypt is more interested in buying Tejas.

@Krishna with Flute

 

[Lulldapull]

Egypt should buy Iranian missiles and drones and produce them under license.

Countries like Egypt or Pakistan or Jordan or even this Al-Turkiya should adopt the Iranian low cost high value asymmetric warfare model.

None of the listed countries can afford overpriced western weaponry.

 

[Bilal9]

Egypt should buy Iranian missiles and drones and produce them under license.

Countries like Egypt or Pakistan or Jordan or even this Al-Turkiya should adopt the Iranian low cost high value asymmetric warfare model.

None of the listed countries can afford overpriced western weaponry.

Turkey is a different case and is a member of NATO.

They started manufacturing advanced platforms like German Frigates and assembling F-16s three or four decades ago.

I'd say Turkey's weapons and armor factories are as advanced as Iran's - if not more. Bayrakter etc. didn't just happen overnight.

Low cost is one thing, which does not prove advantageous in every scenario. Volume of onslaught can overcome tech, but only in certain scenarios, like missiles against Israel.

@LegionnairE I hope I'm not too off-base...

 

[Jiangnan]

Egypt should buy Iranian missiles and drones and produce them under license.

Countries like Egypt or Pakistan or Jordan or even this Al-Turkiya should adopt the Iranian low cost high value asymmetric warfare model.

None of the listed countries can afford overpriced western weaponry.

Assuming Egypt can afford the F-35. (Because Egypt has F-16).

What do you mean? Let Egypt use F-35 to strike Israel?

for instance. South Korea's F-35 must ask Americans for a link16 activation password every day. Then South Korea flew the F-35......

 

[Lulldapull]

Assuming Egypt can afford the F-35. (Because Egypt has F-16).

What do you mean? Let Egypt use F-35 to strike Israel?

for instance. South Korea's F-35 must ask Americans for a link16 activation password every day. Then South Korea flew the F-35......

Egypt Jordan and Pakistan are on US life support. If it’s pulled, these countries are all going to collapse in short order

 

[Jiangnan]

Egypt Jordan and Pakistan are on US life support. If it’s pulled, these countries are all going to collapse in short order

So Egypt bought J-10. to avoid their life being taken over by US

 

[Lulldapull]

So Egypt bought J-10. to avoid their life being taken over by US

No, the US told Egypt to go buy the J-10C from China, because it won’t sell any more arms to Egypt or Pakistan via it’s own aid program

 

[Dogun18]

Turkey is a different case and is a member of NATO.

They started manufacturing advanced platforms like German Frigates and assembling F-16s three or four decades ago.

I'd say Turkey's weapons and armor factories are as advanced as Iran's - if not more. Bayrakter etc. didn't just happen overnight.

Low cost is one thing, which does not prove advantageous in every scenario. Volume of onslaught can overcome tech, but only in certain scenarios, like missiles against Israel.

@LegionnairE I hope I'm not too off-base...

Turkey is far ahead of Iran in many areas. Iran had to rely on Turkey for drones in search of their president when his helicopter got lost. @LegionnairE @Lulldapull

 

[Lulldapull]

Turkey is far ahead of Iran in many areas. Iran had to rely on Turkey for drones in search of their president when his helicopter got lost. @LegionnairE @Lulldapull

Bhai despite access to western technology, Turkey is very limited in what it can do in the region. Their biggest vulnerability is being tied into the western economic system. They'll do what the West wants them to do and can't do what actually benefits them.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkey is a different case and is a member of NATO.

They started manufacturing advanced platforms like German Frigates and assembling F-16s three or four decades ago.

I'd say Turkey's weapons and armor factories are as advanced as Iran's - if not more. Bayrakter etc. didn't just happen overnight.

Low cost is one thing, which does not prove advantageous in every scenario. Volume of onslaught can overcome tech, but only in certain scenarios, like missiles against Israel.

@LegionnairE I hope I'm not too off-base...

I would add that we're not as desperate as Iran. We have more money.

 

[LegionnairE]

Bhai despite access to western technology, Turkey is very limited in what it can do in the region. Their biggest vulnerability is being tied into the western economic system. They'll do what the West wants them to do and can't do what actually benefits them.

That's a different subject and I don't disagree but try to understand how much iran has lost.

Iran before the revolution was a much stronger country than it is now.. They make cheap weapons but %99 of them miss their targets. Our "trainer" Hürjet is a much more advanced plane than Iran's "5th gen stealth fighter."

It's embarrassing. They don't have an air force. They don't have a navy beyond coastal defence. They have some 50-60 year old ships, some speed boats and a couple of weird catamarans.

Not only they are isolated from the west, they don't cooperate with Russia and China to resolve these problems either.

 

[Lulldapull]

That's a different subject and I don't disagree but try to understand how much iran has lost.

Iran before the revolution was a much stronger country than it is now.. They make cheap weapons but %99 of them miss their targets. Our "trainer" Hürjet is a much more advanced plane than Iran's "5th gen stealth fighter."

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It's embarrassing. They don't have an air force. They don't have a navy beyond coastal defence. They have some 50-60 year old ships, some speed boats and a couple of weird catamarans.

Not only they are isolated from the west, they don't cooperate with Russia and China to resolve these problems either.

You guys need to wean yourselves off of the western capitalist corporate system or else you can never be sovereign. These Al-Gurdish terrorists for you and these Pashto afghani terrorists for us is all we’ve got to show for complying with western policy.

Irans far better off of us bro. You need to see it to understand it. China’s offered Iran a half a trillion development package but the iranis are not biting, 5 years and counting seeing the cpec disaster in Pakistan and their own negative experience with China.

If you don’t have sovereignty to decide what’s good for you and what’s not good for you, you won’t make it.

 

[ChineseExpert]

That's a different subject and I don't disagree but try to understand how much iran has lost.

Iran before the revolution was a much stronger country than it is now.. They make cheap weapons but %99 of them miss their targets. Our "trainer" Hürjet is a much more advanced plane than Iran's "5th gen stealth fighter."

View attachment 11058
View attachment 11059

View attachment 11060

It's embarrassing. They don't have an air force. They don't have a navy beyond coastal defence. They have some 50-60 year old ships, some speed boats and a couple of weird catamarans.

Not only they are isolated from the west, they don't cooperate with Russia and China to resolve these problems either.

@Jiangnan Do you think India can even manage Turkish or Iranian made Jets?

 

[Jiangnan]

@Jiangnan Do you think India can even manage Turkish or Iranian made Jets?

I don't know.

 

[Lulldapull]

When I’ve been saying fighter jets are obsolete for years looking at all these modern wars happening in Ukraine and the ME and I’m an idiota no?

But now cuz Eelond musk ka ulla says it so it must be gospel no? I’m so disappointed in subcontinent people and how they think.

They don’t understand or refuse to see the obvious!

Is it inferiority complex? Or is it because of centuries of servitude to the west?

Now that Irans totally changed the nature of warfare then the Iranians must be stupid? Or is it that the coloreds can’t acknowledge reality?

Iran figured this tid bit out 2 fukking decades ago! And today is laughing at all the other chutiya countries……



@Sharma Ji @Vsdoc @Guru Dutt @PakistanProud @Dogun18 @Bilal9 @RayKalm @Azad Kashmir @Bagheera0084

 

[Sharma Ji]

So Egypt has western, russian, and now chinese fighters ?

When I’ve been saying fighter jets are obsolete for years looking at all these modern wars happening in Ukraine and the ME and I’m an idiota no?

But now cuz Eelond musk ka ulla says it so it must be gospel no? I’m so disappointed in subcontinent people and how they think.

They don’t understand or refuse to see the obvious!

Is it inferiority complex? Or is it because of centuries of servitude to the west?

Now that Irans totally changed the nature of warfare then the Iranians must be stupid? Or is it that the coloreds can’t acknowledge reality?

Iran figured this tid bit out 2 fukking decades ago! And today is laughing at all the other chutiya countries……



@Sharma Ji @Vsdoc @Guru Dutt @PakistanProud @Dogun18 @Bilal9 @RayKalm @Azad Kashmir @Bagheera0084

Fighter jets mangta, boss.

There's plenty of use cases for them still, man.

Kya bolta hai tum ? Bakwaas

 

[Lulldapull]

So Egypt has western, russian, and now chinese fighters ?

Fighter jets mangta, boss.

There's plenty of use cases for them still, man.

Kya bolta hai tum ? Bakwaas

Oh bhai who mangta? Only ghareeb log mangta no? Eeelond musk nahi mangta cuz he thinks eff thurrtty faav is chutiya.

And Egypt is also not mangta cuz US refusing to sell weapons to Muslim countries now.

And when the US refuses to sell to ghareeb then you get referred to China by default cuz Russia busted ass now.

 

[Jiangnan]

Oh bhai who mangta? Only ghareeb log mangta no? Eeelond musk nahi mangta cuz he thinks eff thurrtty faav is chutiya.

And Egypt is also not mangta cuz US refusing to sell weapons to Muslim countries now.

And when the US refuses to sell to ghareeb then you get referred to China by default cuz Russia busted ass now.

I think the main reason is. Egypt has no other choice.

 

[Lulldapull]

I think the main reason is. Egypt has no other choice.

Egypt is totally bankrupt bro. They are on GCC life support and get some financial help from the US because of Camp David accords for making peace with Israel.

 

[Jiangnan]

Egypt is totally bankrupt bro. They are on GCC life support and get some financial help from the US because of Camp David accords for making peace with Israel.

Well, buy Chinese weapons with American money.

 

[Bilal9]

@Jiangnan Do you think India can even manage Turkish or Iranian made Jets?

Although you asked @Jiangnan and he answered - let me shed some light on this.

India's relationship with both Turkey (after Turkey's naval defence cooperation with Pakistan) and Iran (after Khamenei's ummah comment/tweet) are really cold.

India will not purchase jets from either country, chances are nil IMO.

 

[LegionnairE]

When I’ve been saying fighter jets are obsolete for years looking at all these modern wars happening in Ukraine and the ME and I’m an idiota no?

But now cuz Eelond musk ka ulla says it so it must be gospel no? I’m so disappointed in subcontinent people and how they think.

They don’t understand or refuse to see the obvious!

Is it inferiority complex? Or is it because of centuries of servitude to the west?

Now that Irans totally changed the nature of warfare then the Iranians must be stupid? Or is it that the coloreds can’t acknowledge reality?

Iran figured this tid bit out 2 fukking decades ago! And today is laughing at all the other chutiya countries……



@Sharma Ji @Vsdoc @Guru Dutt @PakistanProud @Dogun18 @Bilal9 @RayKalm @Azad Kashmir @Bagheera0084

With all due respect, I think I know better than Elon Musk lol.


Egypt purchase of Turkish Hürjet might be blocked by the US due to the F404 engine, that's what worries me a little.

 

[Lulldapull]

With all due respect, I think I know better than Elon Musk lol.


Egypt purchase of Turkish Hürjet might be blocked by the US due to the F404 engine, that's what worries me a little.

Elond Musk has trashed the whole concept of manned air power.

I'm not surprised.

 

[LegionnairE]

Elond Musk has trashed the whole concept of manned air power.

I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised either, he knows nothing of modern air war.

 

[Lulldapull]

I don't know.

Neither Iran nor Al-Turkiya make any jets worth talking about. Besides the real issue now is that jets are obsolete in today's warfare. AI Drones and hypersonic missiles is what everybody wants no?

 

[Bilal9]

Neither Iran nor Al-Turkiya make any jets worth talking about. Besides the real issue now is that jets are obsolete in today's warfare. AI Drones and hypersonic missiles is what everybody wants no?

If you haven't noticed, Turkish KAAN stealth fighter had a maiden flight already. No such achievement for Iran yet.

 

[Lulldapull]

If you haven't noticed, Turkish KAAN stealth fighter had a maiden flight already. No such achievement for Iran yet.

Bhai tbh this thing wouldn't last 2 minutes against the competition. It's still a basic prototype and neither Al-Turkiya nor Iran have any experience making fighter jets.

Its just an attempt at making something worthwhile/ competitive but the problem is there is no history of making warplanes in neither Al-Turkiya nor Iran.

Iran's far ahead overall on the asymmetric warfare philosophy though. Turkey has no clue what its doing.

Eeelond Musk has already trashed the manned warplane concept, something I highlighted years ago.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

They should not go any brand new type imo, and instead get more Rafale.

 

[Lulldapull]

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

They should not go any brand new type imo, and instead get more Rafale.

No bhai.....for da luv of ghaaddh!

Adopt the Persian approach to warfare.......fight with what yous got.......stop giving these westerners your money!

Get real

 

[Sharma Ji]

No bhai.....for da luv of ghaaddh!

Adopt the Persian approach to warfare.......fight with what yous got.......stop giving these westerners your money!

Get real

good god, kya hoga tera ?

 

[LegionnairE]

No bhai.....for da luv of ghaaddh!

Adopt the Persian approach to warfare.......fight with what yous got.......stop giving these westerners your money!

Get real

How many wars/conflicts Iran has won recently?

Their top general Suleimani got killed in an air strike and their proxies in Lebanon and Syria are getting decimated.

Turkish system works. That's why Armenia crumbled in a month and Russia lost billions of dollars of equipment in the early stages of the Ukrainian war. and they got forced into fighting a war of attrition.

Your country is very lucky that you're not in charge of the air force lol.

Read this:

A Monument Of Victory: The Bayraktar TB2 Kill List

www.oryxspioenkop.com

 

[Lulldapull]

How many wars/conflicts Iran has won recently?

Their top general Suleimani got killed in an air strike and their proxies in Lebanon and Syria are getting decimated.

Turkish system works. That's why Armenia crumbled in a month and Russia lost billions of dollars of equipment in the early stages of the Ukrainian war. and they got forced into fighting a war of attrition.

Your country is very lucky that you're not in charge of the air force lol.

Read this:

A Monument Of Victory: The Bayraktar TB2 Kill List

www.oryxspioenkop.com

You will lose again! It’s just a matter of time.

You didn’t learn anything from the last time you tried.

 

[LegionnairE]

You will lose again! It’s just a matter of time.

You didn’t learn anything from the last time you tried.

tried what? lol

 

[Lulldapull]

tried what? lol

Tried to bring in CIA Al-Qaeda into da Sy-Raaq. That's exactly what you tried and tryin again desperately?

It will end in tears just like how we experienced this in the Af-Pak!

Can't yous see?

The US is not your savior! and neither are da EU racists.

You need to understand this reality.

 

[LegionnairE]

Tried to bring in CIA Al-Qaeda into da Sy-Raaq. That's exactly what you tried and tryin again desperately?

It will end in tears just like how we experienced this in the Af-Pak!

Can't yous see?

The US is not your savior! and neither are da EU racists.

You need to understand this reality.

Ah I see.

Turkey recognizes HTS as a terrorist organization. And I hate seeing Aleppo and Hama taken over by terrorists but such is life.

 

[Mainerik]

Ah I see.

It's just a bunch of terrorist groups and I hate seeing this. But assad brought this upon himself. Him and his father have always been anti-Turkey.

I'm a bit shocked myself, I didn't expect Aleppo and Hama to fall in a couple of days.

That being said, if a bunch of terrorist groups (Turkey recognizes HTS as a terrorist organization) can do this to Syrian army. Try to Imagine what would happen against the full might of TAF.

Why is Erdogan supporting 'rebels' in Syria against Assad? What is he trying to achieve? I do not understand him.

 

[LegionnairE]

Why is Erdogan supporting 'rebels' in Syria against Assad? What is he trying to achieve? I do not understand him.

I believe it's purely ideological/sectarian