[🇹🇷] Turkish Tea House - Çay Bahçesi

[TheNewb77]

Yes I understand, but @ThunderCat is desecrating my character with no proof or evidence whatsoever.
I have a right to refute and answer him back. He is behaving in a nasty way towards me. You should at least acknowledge that.

You can talk to him privately or put him on your ignore list. But to make more than 20+ posts and to keep going and then to make a statement of this not being the successor to PDF (which is heresay and subjective) only shows me that you considered spamming here as a right and nothing else.

Take your conversations privately.

 

[ThunderCat]

@Muji.Iqbal Spamming is against the forum rules, please do not treat this forum as your playground. In one of your posts you mentioned that this forum is not the successor of the Old PDF, but that is only heresay and subjective. And that also does not give you the right to spam endlessly like this. Would you had spammed in the other forum, why treat our forum like this?

This is your first warning.

He's been doing this since the previous forum. Spamming thread after thread and annoying dozens of members. He then laughs off any refutation and repeated himself like a parrot. He was banned for this sort of behavior from the previous forum as Multani Guy. He returned under this user name and continued this behavior.

Then after being warned by you, he then turns around and acts like a victim. He exhausted other members patience on the previous forum because of this behavior.

He cites Malaysia, Brunei and Saudi Arabia as developed countries because he thinks it's not apparent to us these are oil-rich countries. Then he mocks me for pointing out that they are.

 

[Mkesath]

I would love to visit Turkey. It is much more developed than the Arab countries I heard.

But I reject their secular government, lol, or laiklik.

if they had no secular government it would not be any different from arab nations today lol, maybe even worse

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

if they had no secular government it would not be any different from arab nations today lol, maybe even worse

What does Secular government have to do with being industrialized and economically developed?

 

[Old School]

if they had no secular government it would not be any different from arab nations today lol, maybe even worse

Did you know that the Ottoman Empire did not actively promote the printing press due to fears that mass education would make people literate and oppose their luxurious theocracy ? They were promoting only handwritten books, primarily religious books, available for the majority of the poor, even though the printing press was unofficially available in Ottoman Turkey at almost the same time as in the rest of Europe. This strategy is one of the reasons the Ottomans could not compete with the rest of Europe.
People in Ottoman Turkey had to learn two alphabets - Roman and Arabic at the same time, which made mass literacy very difficult. Kemal Ataturk romanized the Turkish script so that people only had to learn one alphabet instead of two. This change quickly increased Turkish literacy by manifolds.
We have the same problem in Pakistan, where many students struggle to learn the Roman and Urdu alphabets. Literacy in Pakistan is, therefore, very low. Indonesia also switched to the Roman alphabet from Arabic to write its language long ago. As a result, it has 99% literacy. The Mughal sultanate in Delhi outright did not allow a printing press for the same fear. The British promoted the printing press and mass education in our country.

 

[Mkesath]

Did you know that the Ottoman Empire did not actively promote the printing press due to fears that mass education would make people literate and oppose their luxurious theocracy ? They were promoting only handwritten books, primarily religious books, available for the majority of the poor, even though the printing press was unofficially available in Ottoman Turkey at almost the same time as in the rest of Europe. This strategy is one of the reasons the Ottomans could not compete with the rest of Europe.
People in Ottoman Turkey had to learn two alphabets - Roman and Arabic at the same time, which made mass literacy very difficult. Kemal Ataturk romanized the Turkish script so that people only had to learn one alphabet instead of two. This change quickly increased Turkish literacy by manifolds.
We have the same problem in Pakistan, where many students struggle to learn the Roman and Urdu alphabets. Literacy in Pakistan is, therefore, very low. Indonesia also switched to the Roman alphabet from Arabic to write its language long ago. As a result, it has 99% literacy. The Mughal sultanate in Delhi outright did not allow a printing press for the same fear. The British promoted the printing press and mass education in our country.

Yes, I've heard of the benefits the romanised version had on Turkish, I believe general Ayub Khan of Pakistan had the same plan of romanising Urdu, he was a notable figure in the Latinization of Urdu debate. Which he inspired from Ataturk's reform with Turkish, however this proposal faced opposition, from those who believed perso arabic was more cultural, I think the opposition was mainly because the Mullahs associated the perso-arabic script with Islam because they aren't that smart

 

[Old School]

Do you want to visit Turkey because

I am aware of the benefits the romanised version has had on Turkish, I believe general Ayub Khan of Pakistan had the same plan of romanising Urdu, he was a notable figure in the Latinization of Urdu debate. Which he inspired from Ataturk's reform with Turkish, however this proposal faced opposition, from those who believed perso arabic was more cultural, I think the opposition was mainly because the Mullahs associated the perso-arabic script with Islam because they aren't that smart

Here come the negative aspects of religious quarters, which interfere with broader aspects of a country's strategic issues like education and state law. They can practice their religious doctrines, but they do not stop there. They force their religious doctrine on the rest of state affairs, far from the world's reality. Mullahs were also afraid of losing their grip on the political power base at the cost of damage to human capital.

 

[MuHayMin]

Yes, I've heard of the benefits the romanised version had on Turkish, I believe general Ayub Khan of Pakistan had the same plan of romanising Urdu, he was a notable figure in the Latinization of Urdu debate. Which he inspired from Ataturk's reform with Turkish, however this proposal faced opposition, from those who believed perso arabic was more cultural, I think the opposition was mainly because the Mullahs associated the perso-arabic script with Islam because they aren't that smart

Well in Pakistan people usually just use the latin script.

I don't see an issue replacing the current perso-arabic script as latin works just fine for us on a daily basis. And it's not a Standardised version. Also english is also in the latin script which will make it easier that kids won't have to learn 2 different scrips. Could be beneficial.

 

[Old School]

Well in Pakistan people usually just use the latin script.

I don't see an issue replacing the current perso-arabic script as latin works just fine for us on a daily basis. And it's not a Standardised version. Also english is also in the latin script which will make it easier that kids won't have to learn 2 different scrips. Could be beneficial.

By adapting the Latin script Turkey and Indonesia have been able to increase the literacy above 90%. However, our establishment doesn't want
literate population. All they want an illiterate/semi-literate Zombie population which they can control with their narratives.

 

[MuHayMin]

By adapting the Latin script Turkey and Indonesia have been able to increase the literacy above 90%. However, our establishment doesn't want
literate population. All they want an illiterate/semi-literate Zombie population which they can control with their narratives.

The Urdu speaking elites prefer living amongst illiterates so they are easy to exploit.

There is nothing wrong with perso arabic script may I add, it all comes down to the people and establishment. If the people are willing to learn they can even do so with what they have now.

If you put some thought into it, it may add more to the identity issue of Pakistanis if such changes are made, We are just a hopeless people.

 

[Old School]

Turkey had long taken strict precautions to protect Ismail Haniyeh during his visits to Turkey, as he was Israel's number one target. The Hamas leader was the key man for negotiations, as well as for a ceasefire and hostage exchange.

In fact, after the Israeli Shin Bet threatened to eliminate Hamas leaders around the world, MIT chief Ibrahim Kalin personally contacted the director of the Shin Bet and told him clearly: "Don't dare. Don't even think about that. This will have serious consequences."

Turkey did not limit itself to warnings. MIT and the interior ministry carried out repeated operations against the Mossad, destroying its cells in the country and ensuring the safety of Haniyeh and other Hamas members. This shows that Turkey was not only the supporter but also the protector of Hamas.

That is why serious questions are being raised in Turkey about Haniyeh's murder in Tehran, pointing to Iran's inability to ensure the Palestinian leader's security.
Ankara also believes that Haniya's assassination could not have taken place without support from inside Iran. The murder in one of the safe houses of the Revolutionary Guards shows betrayal from within.

Ankara is asking all these questions publicly because it wants to take a more active role as Hamas' protector, taking Iran and Qatar out of the game.

 

[ThunderCat]

We have the same problem in Pakistan, where many students struggle to learn the Roman and Urdu alphabets. Literacy in Pakistan is, therefore, very low. Indonesia also switched to the Roman alphabet from Arabic to write its language long ago. As a result, it has 99% literacy. The Mughal sultanate in Delhi outright did not allow a printing press for the same fear. The British promoted the printing press and mass education in our country.

Pakistan needs to adopt a modified printed alphabet. Some Pakistani I temporarily had contact with online wrote to me on this subject and I proposed a modified printed Scythian alphabet. Considering the Scythians, spoke languages related to ours and their alphabet was printed, I thought it was a good choice.

He actually drafted one out on paper and sent it to me (although not 100% coherent with the our current alphabet):

 

[ThunderCat]

if they had no secular government it would not be any different from arab nations today lol, maybe even worse

Most Arab countries are secular, save for Gulf Arab states which are strict theocracies, although non-Muslims are still entitled to practice their religions there as well but with certain conditions.

It's only Saudi Arabia that's ultra-strict.

Turkey does have a certain degree of restrictions on non-Muslims as well as non-Sunni Muslims. Turkey did endure a period of Westernization under Ataturk but that was different from genuine secularization. That Westernization has left the country in an identity crisis.

The forceful Westernization by the elite has caused a backlash amongst the civilian population who've turned to Islamist parties. It simply doesn't work. One of the emails I sent you contained a link on this topic.

BTW have a look at my post above.

 

[MuHayMin]

Most Arab countries are secular, save for Gulf Arab states which are strict theocracies, although non-Muslims are still entitled to practice their religions there as well but with certain conditions.

It's only Saudi Arabia that's ultra-strict.

Turkey does have a certain degree of restrictions on non-Muslims as well as non-Sunni Muslims. Turkey did endure a period of Westernization under Ataturk but that was different from genuine secularization. That Westernization has left the country in an identity crisis.

The forceful Westernization by the elite has caused a backlash amongst the civilian population who've turned to Islamist parties. It simply doesn't work. One of the emails I sent you contained a link on this topic.

BTW have a look at my post above.

right now no country in the world has Islamic Law, maybe that can fix Pakistan.

 

[ThunderCat]

right now no country in the world has Islamic Law, maybe that can fix Pakistan.

I don't see how. And "Islamic law" in this case would be extremely subjective.

 

[MuHayMin]

I don't see how. And "Islamic law" in this case would be extremely subjective.

Strict punishments is a good thing I like about it

 

[ThunderCat]

Strict punishments is a good thing I like about it

I agree but it would depend on the crime. Chopping people's hands off for theft but jail sentence for murderers is not my kind of thing.

Jail should be for thieves while death should be for murderers.

 

[MuHayMin]

I agree but it would depend on the crime. Chopping people's hands off for theft but jail sentence for murderers is not my kind of thing.

Jail should be for thieves while death should be for murderers.

There's more to Islamic law then meets the eye, some stuff we need,

I don't see anything wrong with hand chopping theives. It's a solid law.

 

[ThunderCat]

There's more to Islamic law then meets the eye, some stuff we need,

I don't see anything wrong with hand chopping theives. It's a solid law.

Murderers shouldn't be given jail sentences while thieves have their hands chopped off.

That is my argument. Jail should be for thieves and death should be for murderers.

 

[MuHayMin]

Murderers shouldn't be given jail sentences while thieves have their hands chopped off.

That is my argument. Jail should be for thieves and death should be for murderers.

I agree