[🇵🇰-Airforce] Pakistan to Get Chinese-Made Shenyang J-35 Fifth-Gen Fighter Aircraft Within 24 Months

[Bilal9]

You mentioned about J15 here. Do you want to know what Chinese media tells about J15? They call it a bogus aircraft which can not carry more than 2 ton payload from deck. If you want, I can post the article link.

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

 

[Lulldapull]

Gents we are discussing legacy weapons here. Mark my words within a decade or so, manned aviation will get phased out and within a generation from now, that's 25 years, there will be no more manned combat vehicles nor ships and certainly not warplanes anymore.

I said this years ago looking at the Iranian UCAV/ ballistic missile program a decade ago and lo n behold, today Elond Musk says the F-35 is junk!

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

Do not get excited. Chinese so called 5th generation planes have 4- generation stuff in it. They are made to look like fifth generation. They have substandard engines, substandard electronics and substandard weapons. There is nothing fifth generation stuff in Chinese jets and that is why India does not take them seriously. J 20 was detected by MKI from far away distance.

So far as Tejas is concerned, it was not conceived as multirole fighter to all the Jobs of rafale. It was conceived as the replacement of Mig 21 and it has done exceptionally well. It is a top-class fighter of its class. An excellent point defense fighter with excellent ground attack capabilities in nearby areas. So far as India is concern, we do not copy anything and everything which we get the chance to copy. Our MWF is coming. A top-class fighter with Rafale like abilities. Our ORCA and AMCA are in pipeline. When they arrive, they will lead the fighter market. Our defense stuff has attracted customers across the globe unlike China whose more than half of the military exports goes to a single country named Pakistan.

 

[Saif]

Because China has a track record of buying defence stuff which they had declared inferior to Chinese stuff. For example buying Su30 when they had J10, Buying Su35 when they had fifth generation plane J20,. They said that their HQ 9 is superior to S300 and S400 but ultimately bought Russian stuff. In past, same was the case with submarine as well. China exported JF17 to Pakistan but continued with old Mig21 but didn't induct JF17.

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Bad mouthing the J15 or J16 is not doing India or Indians any good. Where is your Indian answer? Other than Tejas which is like a training platform with some teeth, is any frontline fighter completely made from scratch in India indigenously today?

India has been assembling things like Jaguars and Mig 29s since the eighties/nineties, why is it still the same thirty years later?

Reality is - J15 and J16 are supposedly the most modern flankers out there avionics wise and China has them is super credible numbers.

While IAF and politicians are busy lining their pockets with percentages from SU-30 MKI and Raphale platform and spares imports. Come wartime, spares will be hard to get from foreign sources - how will the fleet be kept operational?

Very little indigenous spares manufacture except token ones at HAL and DRDO contractors. If they were, Indian media would be crying from every Indian rooftop.

How does a fighter platform like Tejas take up thirty years to develop? After the US gifted HAL to India in WWII, it should have been revamped a long time ago for efficiency.

Don't you think as Indians you should question your govt. ? Tejas is already obsolete compared to the JF-17. Now they are fitting AESA radars to the JF-17 and jammer pods as well. Whither Tejas?

Why is the single Kaveri engine taking two decades to develop while the Chinese upgraded their whole slew of military engines during that time? Including the WS series.

The idea that Tejas would be a modern Gnat died two decades ago. Not enough foresight.

Indian politicians and top Indian military brass make the money and like sheep, gullible Indians wave the pom-poms, rah rah...

These are questions that Indians should seek answers to.

There has not been enough planning of active deterrence (forget offense) to Chinese developments on Indian side, any third party can easily see.

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

 

[Krishna with Flute]

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

But that Reverse engineering was so poor that even Pakistan denied WS10/11 inplace of RD33.

 

[Jiangnan]

Every nation has different roles for different types of assets and platforms according to their military planning and doctrine. They can buy some and make some. The key is what they are capable of producing in indigenous fashion, without depending on external sources. Which is not what India can do.

Do you know that the SU30 the Chinese "bought" was also produced in China itself as J15 and J16 ?? All the systems in these J15 and J16 are made in China itself (WS 10B engines, avionics like AESA radar). China's deployed J16s (more modern than India's SU 30 MKI) will exceed 350 plus units now. How many SU-30 MKIs does India have ?? About 259 ?

@Jiangnan I don't know if I am entirely truthful above.

Do not get excited. Chinese so called 5th generation planes have 4- generation stuff in it. They are made to look like fifth generation. They have substandard engines, substandard electronics and substandard weapons. There is nothing fifth generation stuff in Chinese jets and that is why India does not take them seriously. J 20 was detected by MKI from far away distance.

So far as Tejas is concerned, it was not conceived as multirole fighter to all the Jobs of rafale. It was conceived as the replacement of Mig 21 and it has done exceptionally well. It is a top-class fighter of its class. An excellent point defense fighter with excellent ground attack capabilities in nearby areas. So far as India is concern, we do not copy anything and everything which we get the chance to copy. Our MWF is coming. A top-class fighter with Rafale like abilities. Our ORCA and AMCA are in pipeline. When they arrive, they will lead the fighter market. Our defense stuff has attracted customers across the globe unlike China whose more than half of the military exports goes to a single country named Pakistan.

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

Think about it. India announced that they used MiG-21 to shoot down F-16. And now they are begging SU-57.

Normal people would understand. Indians are not in the same universe as us.

Can someone tell me. Can India manufacture AMCA airframes?

 

[Jiangnan]

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

J-20, More than 200.

My question is. When India cannot obtain US engines. Who can save the Indian Air Force?

 

[Jiangnan]

But that Reverse engineering was so poor that even Pakistan denied WS10/11 inplace of RD33.

We humans all know. The Pakistan J-10C uses the WS-10 engine.

Now tell me. When can India manufacture AMCA airframes?

 

[Jiangnan]

They bought those planes from Russia to get the engines which they reverse engineered later on.

Don't tell the Indians~ China has never had a MiG-21. and Pakistani J-10C used WS-10 engines.

Let's see how many jokes there are in India

 

[Jiangnan]

Do not get excited. Chinese so called 5th generation planes have 4- generation stuff in it. They are made to look like fifth generation. They have substandard engines, substandard electronics and substandard weapons. There is nothing fifth generation stuff in Chinese jets and that is why India does not take them seriously. J 20 was detected by MKI from far away distance.

So far as Tejas is concerned, it was not conceived as multirole fighter to all the Jobs of rafale. It was conceived as the replacement of Mig 21 and it has done exceptionally well. It is a top-class fighter of its class. An excellent point defense fighter with excellent ground attack capabilities in nearby areas. So far as India is concern, we do not copy anything and everything which we get the chance to copy. Our MWF is coming. A top-class fighter with Rafale like abilities. Our ORCA and AMCA are in pipeline. When they arrive, they will lead the fighter market. Our defense stuff has attracted customers across the globe unlike China whose more than half of the military exports goes to a single country named Pakistan.

Please ask Indian friends to give a serious answer：Where did the Indian Su-30 discover the J-20?

Height? Location? Latitude and longitude?

Please release the flight photos of J-20 captured by Su-30 camera. If the Su-30 has a camera, if Indians know what a camera is.

Indians say that the J-20 does not meet the standards.. Is this standard based on 'Indian MiG-21 shooting down F-16'?

J-20, WS-15 Engine!



J-35A, WS-15 Engine!


J-16, WS-10 Engine!


India, a backward agricultural country that cannot even manufacture airframes. Talking about 'standards'?!

@Bilal9 @Guru Dutt @Saif

 

[Bilal9]

well i guess you have no idea that IAF has
36 Dassault Rafale &
40 LCA MK1
there are 259 odd su 30
we also have 60 Mirage2000
and 64 Mig29 + 40 Mig29K
while there are 80 odd Sepecat Jaguars
and 140 BAE Hawks for adwanced jet training which also can be used for light attack

but those are offensive stuff what we have that China is most fearfull about is what they never talk about but Pakistanies think that they are only ones to have that ... but really that so ?????

I am perfectly aware of the fleet and armament complements India wields. Have been for last two decades.

It is still underwhelming compared to the fleet strengths of a much smaller country like Pakistan whose fleet continues to be more modern and far more effective.

Let's not talk about China, whose indigenous aviation design/mfg. strength India cannot really match. Let's bring up specifics. especially on stealth, but also non-stealth assets.

By the way you forgot about Indian Naval Aviation - long/short-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare assets like Tu-142M, IL-38 (both now retired), newer assets to replace these like P-8 Poseidon, MH-60R etc. but not in sufficient numbers.

Almost all Indian assets imported - and which cannot be sustained in a longstanding skirmish.

 

[Saif]

Don't tell the Indians~ China has never had a MiG-21. and Pakistani J-10C used WS-10 engines.

Let's see how many jokes there are in India

Does your WS-15 engine have TVC (Thrust Vector Control)?

 

[Saif]

Please ask Indian friends to give a serious answer：Where did the Indian Su-30 discover the J-20?

Height? Location? Latitude and longitude?

Please release the flight photos of J-20 captured by Su-30 camera. If the Su-30 has a camera, if Indians know what a camera is.

Indians say that the J-20 does not meet the standards.. Is this standard based on 'Indian MiG-21 shooting down F-16'?

J-20, WS-15 Engine!



J-35A, WS-15 Engine!


J-16, WS-10 Engine!


India, a backward agricultural country that cannot even manufacture airframes. Talking about 'standards'?!

@Bilal9 @Guru Dutt @Saif

Most of the parts of Tejas have to be imported including the engine. Making a jet engine is no joke. Only highly industrialized countries are able to make jet engine. India has to invest good amount of time and money to make jet engine on its own. As far as I know France has offered them jet engine technology to be used in Tejas.

Chinese WS-15 is a good engine. I heard that from a China specialist. By the by, have you retired all your J-7?

 

[Krishna with Flute]

Please ask Indian friends to give a serious answer：Where did the Indian Su-30 discover the J-20?

Height? Location? Latitude and longitude?

Please release the flight photos of J-20 captured by Su-30 camera. If the Su-30 has a camera, if Indians know what a camera is.

Indians say that the J-20 does not meet the standards.. Is this standard based on 'Indian MiG-21 shooting down F-16'?

J-20, WS-15 Engine!



J-35A, WS-15 Engine!


J-16, WS-10 Engine!


India, a backward agricultural country that cannot even manufacture airframes. Talking about 'standards'?!

@Bilal9 @Guru Dutt @Saif

It has already been answered. You are a poor reader. Come out of propaganda and learn to read if you want to discuss.

 

[Jiangnan]

It has already been answered. You are a poor reader. Come out of propaganda and learn to read if you want to discuss.

sorry. We human world cannot believe India's propaganda. Now go beg SU-57.

India. A backward agricultural country that cannot even manufacture airframes!

 

[Jiangnan]

Most of the parts of Tejas have to be imported including the engine. Making a jet engine is no joke. Only highly industrialized countries are able to make jet engine. India has to invest good amount of time and money to make jet engine on its own. As far as I know France has offered them jet engine technology to be used in Tejas.

Chinese WS-15 is a good engine. I heard that from a China specialist. By the by, have you retired all your J-7?

in fact. We are preparing to keep the J-7 to strike Rafale. you know, the Indian MiG-21 can shoot down F-16

 

[Jiangnan]

Does your WS-15 engine have TVC (Thrust Vector Control)?

WS-10B has TVC.

 

[Guru Dutt]

I am perfectly aware of the fleet and armament complements India wields. Have been for last two decades.

It is still underwhelming compared to the fleet strengths of a much smaller country like Pakistan whose fleet continues to be more modern and far more effective.

Let's not talk about China, whose indigenous aviation design/mfg. strength India cannot really match. Let's bring up specifics. especially on stealth, but also non-stealth assets.

By the way you forgot about Indian Naval Aviation - long/short-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare assets like Tu-142M, IL-38 (both now retired), newer assets to replace these like P-8 Poseidon, MH-60R etc. but not in sufficient numbers.

Almost all Indian assets imported - and which cannot be sustained in a longstanding skirmish.

well India knows that it needs a very potent air force to keep China and other irritants like pakistan and bangladesh in there limits so they dontget too adventrous

having said that we do not need Su30 or rafales for Pakistan Mirage2000, Mig29s and LCA and jaguars are more tha enough for indian maratime roles in bay of bengal or arabian sea and pakistani theater

sure China would like to push the envelop by mass producing its 5th gen and gifting a squad or two of the same to pakistani air force like they gifted J10cs before but having fancy airforce is one thing and using them are very different things cause that needs money and other resources which is the real question

as for Indian air force future and its prepairdness well ther are many parlell programmes running its just that its now looking too confusing ... but it dose not means working is not done ... worry not we are used to such cheos ...cheers mate

 

[Jiangnan]

well India knows that it needs a very potent air force to keep China and other irritants like pakistan and bangladesh in there limits so they dontget too adventrous

having said that we do not need Su30 or rafales for Pakistan Mirage2000, Mig29s and LCA and jaguars are more tha enough for indian maratime roles in bay of bengal or arabian sea and pakistani theater

sure China would like to push the envelop by mass producing its 5th gen and gifting a squad or two of the same to pakistani air force like they gifted J10cs before but having fancy airforce is one thing and using them are very different things cause that needs money and other resources which is the real question

as for Indian air force future and its prepairdness well ther are many parlell programmes running its just that its now looking too confusing ... but it dose not means working is not done ... worry not we are used to such cheos ...cheers mate

Is this why India cannot manufacture MACA airframes? So why is India begging for SU-57?