[🇧🇩-Airforce] MRCA Program of Bangladesh Air Force

[Saif]

Date of Event: Nov 19, 2024

Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSJdEQHxlU Short Summary: Monitoring the purchase of 4.5 generation aircraft for BAF.

Bangladesh’s air chief attends Zhuhai airshow, signaling interest in Chinese military tech

 

[Vsdoc]

@Lulldapull @Guru Dutt

 

[Saif]

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the video. Posting it to generate constructive discussion.

Bangladesh wants Rafale fighters as broader effort to modernize Bangladesh Air Force

 

[Krishna with Flute]

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the video. Posting it to generate constructive discussion.

Bangladesh wants Rafale fighters as broader effort to modernize Bangladesh Air Force

Rafale shall be too costly. Acquisition of Rafale shall have its toll on other defense acquisition. This seems more of an enthusiasm than something considered seriously.

 

[Saif]

Rafale shall be too costly. Acquisition of Rafale shall have its toll on other defense acquisition. This seems more of an enthusiasm than something considered seriously.

I prefer J-10C from China. It's cheap and easy to maintain. Supply of spare parts is guaranteed.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

I prefer J-10C from China. It's cheap and easy to maintain. Supply of spare parts is guaranteed.

It has low reliability, substandard weapons and poor electronics.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

I think Mig 35 or Su 35 or Su 75 shall be the best deal for BD. I exclude best bat Tejas as current situation in BDay not be conducive for that.

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh’s air chief attends Zhuhai airshow, signaling interest in Chinese military tech

I think the narration went a bit over-dramatic, saying Bangladesh buying aerial platforms of any kind from China will affect regional stability.

It won't.

Bangladesh military posture has always been defensive - with much larger neighbors who pose a larger military threat. Bangladesh needs to play its cards right diplomatically.

Focus in Bangladesh - as it exists and will remain for the near future, is to improve the economy. End of story.

 

[Bilal9]

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the video. Posting it to generate constructive discussion.

Bangladesh wants Rafale fighters as broader effort to modernize Bangladesh Air Force

The news is not entirely without basis, but the sources have credibility issues,

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New leadership in Dhaka may pave way for Rafale deal​

Posted on October 27, 2024 by alert5

France is making a big push to sell its Rafale fighter jets to Bangladesh, hoping to capitalise on a change in leadership in Dhaka, the Sunday Guardian reports. Discussions are progressing with the new caretaker Prime Minister, Mohammad Yunus, who is seen as more receptive to France’s offer than his predecessor, Sheikh Hasina. This comes as Bangladesh seeks to modernise its air force, officially known as the Bangladesh Air Force or BAF



Back in March 2017, the Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) in Bangladesh issued a tender for eight multi-role combat aircraft, with an option for four more in the second phase. The deal, valued at approximately €2.5 billion, is seen as critical to bolstering Bangladesh’s aerial defences and enabling a range of operations, including anti-surface, maritime, and offensive counter-air missions.

While the French Rafale is a strong contender, it faces competition from the European-built Eurofighter Typhoon. However, the Rafale faces some headwinds. Some argue that Bangladesh should avoid purchasing the same fighter jet as its neighbour India. They suggest that doing so could limit Bangladesh’s tactical advantage, as India would have intimate knowledge of the Rafale’s capabilities and potential weaknesses. Furthermore, critics argue that acquiring the Rafale could signal Bangladesh is aligning too closely with India’s defence strategy, and they urge Dhaka to diversify its defence equipment sources.

French President Emmanuel Macron visited Dhaka in September 2023, following his attendance at the G-20 Summit in New Delhi. This visit, the first by a French President in 33 years, aimed to persuade Bangladesh to choose the Rafale. However, Macron left without a firm commitment from Bangladesh.

The BAF has laid out detailed specifications for the new fighter jets. They require twin-engine aircraft with a minimum thrust of 5,500 kg dry and over 8,000 kg with afterburner. The aircraft must also have at least eight hardpoints and a payload capacity of no less than 5,000 kg. The BAF’s requirements extend beyond the aircraft itself, encompassing maintenance, training, and a comprehensive set of air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions. Deliveries are expected to occur in two phases, with the first batch of four aircraft arriving first, followed by the remaining aircraft 18-24 months later.

The outcome of this competition remains uncertain. The decision Bangladesh makes will have significant implications for both France and the balance of power in the region.

For more information, hit the Source below

Source
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France seeks Rafale deal with Bangladesh​

French Air Force fighter jet Rafale


ByAbhinandan Mishra
October 27, 2024

France aims to finalise Rafale deal with Bangladesh as discussions gain momentum under Caretaker PM Mohammad Yunus.

New Delhi: France is hoping that the new dispensation in Bangladesh will finalise a long-awaited deal to purchase Rafale fighter jets as part of a broader effort to modernise the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF), according to sources familiar with the matter. The discussions have gained momentum as the caretaker Prime Minister Mohammad Yunus has been described as more receptive to France’s offer compared to his predecessor Sheikh Hasina.

In March 2017, Bangladesh’s Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) issued a tender for eight new multi-role combat aircraft, with an option for four more in the second phase, to bolster the BAF’s capabilities. The objective was to enhance the country’s aerial defence and enable anti-surface, maritime, and offensive counter-air operations. The Bangladeshi government had previously committed in December 2016 to finalising this purchase during the 2016-2017 fiscal year. Apart from the French Rafale, the European-built Eurofighter Typhoon has also been in the running for this almost €2.5 billion contract.

As part of the competition for this tender, defence companies are not only highlighting the strengths of their own products, but also pointing out perceived shortcomings in their competitors’ offerings. In this context, a narrative has emerged suggesting that since India operates Rafale fighter jets, Dhaka should consider not opting for Rafale. Those supporting this narrative say that Dhaka should diversify its defence equipment sources to avoid dependency on the same suppliers as neighbouring countries. Secondly, opting for the same aircraft could be seen as aligning too closely with India’s defence strategy. Thirdly, since India already operates Rafale jets, Bangladesh might lose any tactical advantage as India would have in-depth knowledge of the capabilities and potential weaknesses of the Rafale, which could put Bangladesh at a disadvantage in any future conflict or diplomatic standoff.

The Sunday Guardian reached out to Dassault Aviation for a response on these developments. None was received till the story went to press. Similar email sent to the Bangladesh Cabinet Secretariat headed by Yunus too did not generate any response.

As per the BAF’s specifications, the fighters must be newly built, with production beginning no earlier than the signing year of the contract. The aircraft should have twin engines, each delivering a minimum of 5,500 kg in dry thrust and over 8,000 kg with afterburner. They must feature at least eight hardpoints and a payload capacity of no less than 5,000 kg. In terms of avionics, the BAF wants the fighters to be equipped with an electronically-scanned array radar capable of a range of 150 km for air-to-air missions and 50 km for air-to-surface operations. The package must also include an integrated electronic warfare and electronic countermeasures suite, an infrared search and track (IRST) system with a 50 km tracking range, a helmet-mounted display and sight system, a head-up display, and a modern glass cockpit. The BAF has sought a comprehensive package deal that includes not just the aircraft but also maintenance, a training package, and a set of air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions. The delivery is expected in two phases, with the first batch of four aircraft to be followed by the second batch 18-24 months later.

In September 2023, French President Emmanuel Macron visited Dhaka at the invitation of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina. The visit, which followed Macron’s attendance at the G-20 Summit in New Delhi, was the first official visit by a French president to Bangladesh in 33 years. One primary reason for the visit of Marcon was to push for the induction of Rafale into BAF. However, he received no concrete answer.

 

[Saif]

It has low reliability, substandard weapons and poor electronics.

BAF has always customized Chinese aircraft before purchasing. The avionics, ejection seat and targeting pod can be changed to make J-10 a potent aerial platform.

 

[Saif]

Focus in Bangladesh - as it exists and will remain for the near future, is to improve the economy. End of story.

Sovereignty comes first not the economy.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

BAF has always customized Chinese aircraft before purchasing. The avionics, ejection seat and targeting pod can be changed to make J-10 a potent aerial platform.

But what about the platform? If they provide Russian engine, it can be still workable but if they install Chinese engine, its reliability shall be very low. Its weapons are not very reliable, so as radar. It will always be batter to go for Russian weapons when there is a choice between Russian and Chinese weapon. Even China has purchased Su 35 and Su30 inspite of claim of so called 5th generation plane called J 20. China itself has not inducted JF17 though they use Mig 21.

 

[Saif]

But what about the platform? If they provide Russian engine, it can be still workable but if they install Chinese engine, its reliability shall be very low. Its weapons are not very reliable, so as radar. It will always be batter to go for Russian weapons when there is a choice between Russian and Chinese weapon. Even China has purchased Su 35 and Su30 inspite of claim of so called 5th generation plane called J 20. China itself has not inducted JF17 though they use Mig 21.

China has reverse engineered Russian engine which works just fine.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

China has reverse engineered Russian engine which works just fine.

China had offered JF 17 with Chinese engine which Pakistan had refused to accept. If BD thinks that it works fine, so be it. Afterall, you are going to purchase it with your own money.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

So far as India is concern, India will always want country with possibility of potential conflict to have substandard weapons. IAF will always prefer to counter JF 17 and J10 than Mig 35 ot Su35.

 

[Saif]

China had offered JF 17 with Chinese engine which Pakistan had refused to accept. If BD thinks that it works fine, so be it. Afterall, you are going to purchase it by your own money.

WS-15 is a powerful engine which powers J-20--a fifth generation aircraft of China.

 

[Saif]

So far as India is concern, India will always want country with possibility of potential conflict to have substandard weapons. IAF will always prefer to counter JF 17 and J10 than Mig 35 ot Su35.

We should not buy big ticket items from Russia because of its close relation with India.

 

[Saif]

The guy in the video tells that BAF is moving toward acquiring new aircraft under the much talked about MRCA program. Besides, he also tells that Drones are also being procured and manufactured locally.

যুদ্ধের জন্য বাংলাদেশ বিমান বাহিনী কতটুকু প্রস্তুত?

 

[Krishna with Flute]

We should not buy big ticket items from Russia because of its close relation with India.

That is a point. What about SAAB Gripen? Or F16?

 

[Saif]

That is a point. What about SAAB Gripen? Or F16?

We cannot buy F-16 because of ACSA and GSOMIA. Gripen is also not an option because it has US engine.

 

[Jiangnan]

It has low reliability, substandard weapons and poor electronics.

J-10C actual performance.

1, Fly directly from China to Egypt. The mileage is 8000 km.

2, The 5 J-10C formation flew over Mount Everest.

3, Suppress F-16V and IDF in the Taiwan Strait.

4, Chinese J-10C Scores 9-0 Victory Over Eurofighter Typhoon As Its PR Machinery 'Hot Sells' 4.5-Gen Jets

 

[Krishna with Flute]

J-10C actual performance.

1, Fly directly from China to Egypt. The mileage is 8000 km.

2, The 5 J-10C formation flew over Mount Everest.

3, Suppress F-16V and IDF in the Taiwan Strait.

4, Chinese J-10C Scores 9-0 Victory Over Eurofighter Typhoon As Its PR Machinery 'Hot Sells' 4.5-Gen Jets

If you have no knowledge of subject, you have a lot of freedom to bluff.

Which fighter in the world has 8000 KM of range? Forget about J 10 but cite a single example any plane in the world which has 8000 k m of range.

Mount Everestra has 30000 ft height. Almost all fighters have 50000 ft ceiling. So almost each and every plane can do that.
Victory over Eurofighter. When your J 11 performed like this in exercise against outdated GripenC/D, what will your J10 do against Eurofighter? Read this para on exercise Falcon Strike.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.

This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes. Message To The US? China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet Makes Debut In Joint Military Drills With Russia Details of Exercise Falcon...

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Jiangnan]

If you have no knowledge of subject, you have a lot of freedom to bluff.

Which fighter in the world has 8000 KM of range? Forget about J 10 but cite a single example any plane in the world which has 8000 k m of range.

Mount Everestra has 30000 ft height. Almost all fighters have 50000 ft ceiling. So almost each and every plane can do that.
Victory over Eurofighter. When your J 11 performed like this in exercise against outdated GripenC/D, what will your J10 do against Eurofighter? Read this para on exercise Falcon Strike.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.

This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes. Message To The US? China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet Makes Debut In Joint Military Drills With Russia Details of Exercise Falcon...

www.eurasiantimes.com

1, I didn't say that J-10C flew 8000 kilometers alone to Egypt. J-10C undergoes aerial refueling and then flies to Egypt. Mileage 8000 km. I'm sorry. I don't know if you don't know about air refueling.​

​

2, You may not know the Everest route. This is the most dangerous route in the world. Any plane flying on Mount Everest is extremely dangerous. And pilots are at risk of altitude sickness. Including very strict tests on aviation engines. It's common sense. No more explanations. But J-10C pilots can fly over Mount Everest.​

​

3, According to Taiwanese news. J-10C suppresses F-16V and IDF in the Taiwan Strait. (Now think about it. Indian Rafale fighter vs Pakistani F-16 C/D).​

​

​

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4, China Thailand conducts air exercises every year. But I don't know why the news only reported on the 2015 incident and only talked about J-11.​

​

BTW. J-10C also participated in the China Thailand Air Force exercises. Can't you find this link?​

....................​

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Now let's take a look at the only air force on Mount Everest. -- J-10C.​

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​

​

 

[Jiangnan]

We should not buy big ticket items from Russia because of its close relation with India.

Around 2017. I was chatting with a Bangladeshi friend. I would recommend Bangladesh to consider investing in SAC. Because SAC was in dire need of financial support at that time. It lost to CAC in the PLAAF bid. Almost all the money of the Air Force was invested in the CAC. At the time, SAC even sold some factories to save FC31. If Bangladesh can invest in SAC. In the future, it is possible to get the FC-31 at cost price.

But there is no "if". It's a pity

 

[Dogun18]

J-10C actual performance.

1, Fly directly from China to Egypt. The mileage is 8000 km.

2, The 5 J-10C formation flew over Mount Everest.

3, Suppress F-16V and IDF in the Taiwan Strait.

4, Chinese J-10C Scores 9-0 Victory Over Eurofighter Typhoon As Its PR Machinery 'Hot Sells' 4.5-Gen Jets

@Lulldapull Do you think that Bangladesh should go for JC-10 or JF-17s? And do you think that Iran could ever match something like those?

 

[Lulldapull]

@Lulldapull Do you think that Bangladesh should go for JC-10 or JF-17s? And do you think that Iran could ever match something like those?

Bhai tbh in about a decade or so, warplanes will largely be replaced by AI drones.

The USAF NGAD fighter is a pilotless drone.

 

[Dogun18]

Bhai tbh in about a decade or so, warplanes will largely be replaced by AI drones.

The USAF NGAD fighter is a pilotless drone.

Yes, but Iran even showed keen interest in the JF-17 and perhaps to buy a few from Pakistan after the Israeli-Iran spat.

 

[Lulldapull]

Yes, but Iran even showed keen interest in the JF-17 and perhaps to buy a few from Pakistan after the Israeli-Iran spat.

China won’t allow the thunder to be exported to Iran due to US pressure.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

If you have no knowledge of subject, you have a lot of freedom to bluff.

Which fighter in the world has 8000 KM of range? Forget about J 10 but cite a single example any plane in the world which has 8000 k m of range.

Mount Everestra has 30000 ft height. Almost all fighters have 50000 ft ceiling. So almost each and every plane can do that.
Victory over Eurofighter. When your J 11 performed like this in exercise against outdated GripenC/D, what will your J10 do against Eurofighter? Read this para on exercise Falcon Strike.

What astounded the military experts is that a 25-year-old fighter overpowered the relatively younger Chinese J-11 aircraft especially during the beyond-visual-range (BVR) engagements.

This humiliating defeat by the Gripens exposed the reality of China’s air-warfare capabilities, with experts commenting on J-11s not having a chance against the muc advanced Rafales that the Indian Air Force is operating.

The Gripens shot down a total of 41 Chinese J-11s at a loss of six fighters. The final tally after the completion of seven days stood in favor of the Swedish fighters as it shot down 42 J-11s at a loss of 34 only.

Saab Gripen ‘Rips Apart’ Chinese J-11 Fighters In War Games; Experts Call Them ‘Sitting Ducks’ For Rafales

A “dogfight” between Saab Gripen and the Chinese J-11 fighter jets game provides lessons to militaries around the world on how to get the better of Chinese warplanes. Message To The US? China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet Makes Debut In Joint Military Drills With Russia Details of Exercise Falcon...

www.eurasiantimes.com

What a big deal if that is done with refueling? We never thum our chest on Rafal flying non stop from France to India with refueling.

Not only in Himalayas, flying J10 is dangerous anywhere because so many of them has fallen down till date.
There was an another excercise as well where Gripen scored 34 to 0 against Chinese plane in BVR combat. These are outdated Gripen C/D. Imagine what will happen to your planes when it will face Rafale or Tejas? Your technologically inferior planes are only good for chest thumping but not good enough for fight any modern warfare.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

We cannot buy F-16 because of ACSA and GSOMIA. Gripen is also not an option because it has US engine.

This means that Chinese mall in a majaboori.

 

[Saif]

Around 2017. I was chatting with a Bangladeshi friend. I would recommend Bangladesh to consider investing in SAC. Because SAC was in dire need of financial support at that time. It lost to CAC in the PLAAF bid. Almost all the money of the Air Force was invested in the CAC. At the time, SAC even sold some factories to save FC31. If Bangladesh can invest in SAC. In the future, it is possible to get the FC-31 at cost price.

But there is no "if". It's a pity

Are FC-31 and J-35A the same aircraft?

 

[Saif]

This means that Chinese mall in a majaboori.

We are used to using Chinese technology so it is only natural that we feel comfortable with Chinese aircraft like J-10. Besides, supply of spare parts is guaranteed.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

We are used to using Chinese technology so it is only natural that we feel comfortable with Chinese aircraft like J-10. Besides, supply of spare parts is guaranteed.

Feeling comfortable and being effective are different things.

 

[Sharma Ji]

How many do BD need/want ?

A single engine like a JF 17, F 16, Gripen fit the bill one would imagine.

 

[Krishna with Flute]

How many do BD need/want ?

A single engine like a JF 17, F 16, Gripen fit the bill one would imagine.

Gripen and F16 are costly.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Gripen and F16 are costly.

True, but what is their requirement ? How many are they looking at ?

1 squadron should be plenty enough, 15 - 20.

 

[Saif]

Feeling comfortable and being effective are different things.

J-10 is effective air platform. Pakistan has bought 25 units of J-10. The Egyptian air force is going ahead to sign a deal with China to procure large number of J-10 in near future. Iran is also in the race.

 

[Saif]

True, but what is their requirement ? How many are they looking at ?

1 squadron should be plenty enough, 15 - 20.

We are looking for inducting 3 squadron of J-10 to replace the F-7MB, F-7BG and F-7BGI. Initially we will replace F-7MB and the other versions of F-7S will be replaced within 2030. Right now BAF has the government authorization to operate 5 squadron aircrafts.

 

[Sharma Ji]

We are looking for inducting 3 squadron of J-10 to replace the F-7MB, F-7BG and F-7BGI. Initially we will replace F-7MB and the other versions of F-7S will be replaced within 2030. Right now BAF has the government authorization to operate 5 squadron aircrafts.

So roughly 60 odd fighters ? Isn't that overkill ?

Spend some on troop/cargo transport too, and some on rotary wing (particularly helpful vs insurgents in a dense jungle)

 

[Saif]

So roughly 60 odd fighters ? Isn't that overkill ?

Spend some on troop/cargo transport too, and some on rotary wing (particularly helpful vs insurgents in a dense jungle)

Actually we need more than 5 squadrons of aircraft to protect our air space from the Indian and Burmese air forces. BAF has committed adequate amount of money to procure transport planes and helicopters. Just recently BAF has bought 5 C-130 Hercules from the Royal air force. Also added quite a few Russian MI-17 helicopters to its fleet.

 

[Ummm]

Actually we need more than 5 squadrons of aircraft to protect our air space from the Indian and Burmese air forces. BAF has committed adequate amount of money to transport planes and helicopters. Just recently BAF has bought 5 C-130 Hercules from the Royal air force. Also added quite a few Russian MI-17 helicopters to its fleet.

Is the Burmese airforce stronger than Bangladeshi airforce?

 

[Saif]

Is the Burmese airforce stronger than Bangladeshi airforce?

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[Sharma Ji]

the Everest route. This is the most dangerous route in the world. Any plane flying on Mount Everest is extremely dangerous. And pilots are at risk of altitude sickness. Including very strict tests on aviation engines. It's common sense. No more explanations. But J-10C pilots can fly over Mount Everest.

Thanks for the laughs

 

[Jiangnan]

Are FC-31 and J-35A the same aircraft?

FC-31 is the foundation of J-35A.

 

[Observer]

FC-31 is the foundation of J-35A.

Foundation, so the same plane? Don't understand.

 

[Jiangnan]

Thanks for the laughs

For some common sense. I don't want to explain too much. Now let's see the J-10C flying at ultra-low altitude.

 

[Saif]

Foundation, so the same plane? Don't understand.

He means that J-35A is based on FC-31. If I am not mistaken J-35A is an improved version of FC-31.

 

[Jiangnan]

Foundation, so the same plane? Don't understand.

FC31 is independently produced by SAC. Not authorized by the Chinese government. They also did not receive support from the Chinese government. After continuous improvement at SAC. The Chinese Air Force and Navy ultimately accepted it. And renamed as J-31/35.

 

[Jiangnan]

Feeling comfortable and being effective are different things.

Just like LCA, although IAF feels uncomfortable. But the Indian government believes it is effective.

？

Your response is full of logical contradictions. Please consider carefully before replying.

 

[Jiangnan]

Regarding some issues pointed out by Indian friends. Lack of factual basis.

Taiwanese military experts note that in a high-tech confrontation in the Taiwan Strait, it will be difficult for the F-16V to counter the J-10C.

https://blog.udn.com/mobile/H101094880/170640875

J-10C can fight in any environment and any climate.

As for the weapons, avionics, and other issues related to the J-10C mentioned by Indian friends. Perhaps based on the experience of the Indian Air Force in countering Pakistan's old F-16.