[🇵🇰] Will Pakistan ever function as a secular state?

[Old School]

Source : https://tribune.com.pk/article/42202/will-pakistan-ever-function-as-a-secular-state

In Pakistan and, in fact, most of the Islamic world, the very concept of secularism is completely misunderstood. Somehow the concept has been thoroughly confused and amalgamated with atheism. An overwhelming majority of politicians, and even intellectuals, often try to defend themselves when "accused" of being secular, particularly on mainstream online media and Urdu print media. To declare oneself as a secular is considered equivalent to being considered an atheist in the public imagination.
The entire atmosphere is riddled with severe misconceptions about secularism. Due to fear of being branded an "atheist" and anti-Islamic, the word secular, in both letter and spirit, is virtually absent from the discourse. Even those who understand that secularism is fundamentally different from atheism often raise the question: "what good is secularism?" and "all we need is the right interpretation of religion."
What these "reinterpretation" folks fail to understand is that there are often multiple interpretations of religious text and while at the individual level, one has the option to choose one over the other without infringing on anyone's freedom, laws have to be uniformly applied across the board. So if we want to base our laws on shariah, eventually we will have to privilege one interpretation over the other since law cannot be selectively applied.
Treating religion as a personal matter is extremely essential as its projection into the public sphere is what causes discrimination and also leads to varying patterns of State sanctioned benefits and costs. By treating religion as a personal affair, a society tries to at least reduce such possibilities and reduce chances that a religious minority feels excluded. Muslim followers are not monolithic (as they are divided into sects), therefore a secular State, by being neutral (at least theoretically), ensures neutrality on religious grounds.

 

[Malang]

Not for the next 100 years and I won’t be alive to debate after that.

Pakistan will not be secular state even though most of its leaders are secular at heart. The Pakistan Peoples Party, The MQM, The Parvez Musharraf era and the military rules were generally secular governments.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Pakistan should be an Islamic country. Islam also says to tolerate religious minorities and protect them as well.

 

[Lulldapull]

I believe the real test of being secular is if you don't reference nor bring up religion in your daily public discourse. The western Europeans have mastered this art rather well. Total separation of church and state. Humreeki (save for the NE/ SW) large metro areas are still fairly Evangelical/ Zionist. Problem is the US has weaponized/ commercialized religion into an industry.

For our country, we never had real (elected) leadership to play the mentoring/ leadership role. Ayub Khan tried his best to cultivate our society along the western model, but he could only do so much. Jinnah sahb was totally secular. So was Bhutto for the most part. I believe our state has not really played the role of a committed stakeholder with a vision, invested in the future of our nation.

 

[Old School]

I believe the real test of being secular is if you don't reference nor bring up religion in your daily public discourse. The western Europeans have mastered this art rather well. Total separation of church and state. Humreeki (save for the NE/ SW) large metro areas are still fairly Evangelical/ Zionist. Problem is the US has weaponized/ commercialized religion into an industry.

For our country, we never had real (elected) leadership to play the mentoring/ leadership role. Ayub Khan tried his best to cultivate our society along the western model, but he could only do so much. Jinnah sahb was totally secular. So was Bhutto for the most part. I believe our state has not really played the role of a committed stakeholder with a vision, invested in the future of our nation.

Our country never had an Islamic revolution to become an Islamic Republic. When We gained independence from Britain under Jinnah, our country's name was the "Dominion of Pakistan." It became a pseudo-Islamic Republic with fake Sharia laws during the generals ' rule. No one ever voted in a referendum for the Islamic Republic, either. Therefore, this religious dogma only came from the army barracks, not the people. It is easy. Another general will have to remove this fake tag. The rest of the moulvis will run away when there is no money to milk. Londonistanis and few will be unhappy, but who cares! We need the separation of religion and state affairs; another general will do it.

 

[Deleted due to Error (Muji Iqbal)]

Our country never had an Islamic revolution to become an Islamic Republic. When We gained independence from Britain under Jinnah, our country's name was the "Dominion of Pakistan." It became a pseudo-Islamic Republic with fake Sharia laws during the generals ' rule. No one ever voted in a referendum for the Islamic Republic, either. Therefore, this religious dogma only came from the army barracks, not the people. It is easy. Another general will have to remove this fake tag. The rest of the moulvis will run away when there is no money to milk. Londonistanis and few will be unhappy, but who cares! We need the separation of religion and state affairs; another general will do it.

Come on mate, If Pakistan does not become an Islamic country, what was the point of partition.

Islamic laws also tolerate other religions and protect the rights of minorities.

If we implement Islamic laws like cutting of the hand and stoning to death for adultery, then crime would be a lot less.

 

[Lulldapull]

Our country never had an Islamic revolution to become an Islamic Republic. When We gained independence from Britain under Jinnah, our country's name was the "Dominion of Pakistan." It became a pseudo-Islamic Republic with fake Sharia laws during the generals ' rule. No one ever voted in a referendum for the Islamic Republic, either. Therefore, this religious dogma only came from the army barracks, not the people. It is easy. Another general will have to remove this fake tag. The rest of the moulvis will run away when there is no money to milk. Londonistanis and few will be unhappy, but who cares! We need the separation of religion and state affairs; another general will do it.

Bhai Iran k saath dekheen kya howa hae…..….shah Pehlvi sahb and Ayub khan, yahya khan and Bhutto sahb we’re all chaddi yaar…..he almost turned Iran into a first world country.

Instead what happened over in Iran is that the communists infiltrated and caused all these Muslim dramay.

Now Iran has turned into a jungli animal. Whole Irani society is liberal, but they have been turned into a mini USSR.

All we got is ghareeb mercenary on offer for the west. Irani Sawdi floating on massive energy and the west will never leave them alone. And believe me issy vaja say the impact on us as impressionable ghareeb Muslims is horrible!

This is what is going on in our region.

We seriously need a total political makeover in our country. We are just an innocent exploited country.

 

[Lulldapull]

I believe if the Shah stuck around another quarter century……most of the relevant Muslim world would’ve totally become secular and modern and progressive.

Mager nahi……hum itnay khush qismat nahi hain.

 

[Old School]

I believe if the Shah stuck around another quarter century……most of the relevant Muslim world would’ve totally become secular and modern and progressive.

Mager nahi……hum itnay khush qismat nahi hain.

Our government plays Islam just like any street beggar does- start reciting. They even don't believe what they say about religion. It is all about money. The more someone talks about religion, the darker side they have.

 

[Lulldapull]

Our government plays Islam just like any street beggar does- start reciting. They even don't believe what they say about religion. It is all about money. The more someone talks about religion, the darker side they have.

Lot of people now saying that we are not going to make it if things continue on like this. Our situation is getting more n more difficult and there is just no leadership for a long time. PML/ PTI or PPP are not going to cut it. Army is after saving its own neck in these circumstances. They are the only thing standing or we disintegrate in the blink of an eye.

Our bewquff awaam thinks mazhab will save us…..

 

[Old School]

Lot of people now saying that we are not going to make it if things continue on like this. Our situation is getting more n more difficult and there is just no leadership for a long time. PML/ PTI or PPP are not going to cut it. Army is after saving its own neck in these circumstances. They are the only thing standing or we disintegrate in the blink of an eye.

Our bewquff awaam thinks mazhab will save us…..

The whole nation has become a bunch of spoiled minors which now seriously needs adult supervision. If a politician goes to jail just because of his marriage, this country is already doomed.

 

[Delta2]

Our government plays Islam just like any street beggar does- start reciting. They even don't believe what they say about religion. It is all about money. The more someone talks about religion, the darker side they have.

Have pondered on this a lot.

Have you heard the old Arab story of a pious man who walked on his toes because he was afraid he might step on an ant?

 

[Old School]

It wasn't meant to be a theocracy that is for sure.

According to Jinnahs own words.

Every one of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste, or creed, is first, second, and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make. […] You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the state.

— Jinnah’s address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan (11 August 1947)

“…the great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad (peace by upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. Islam demands from us tolerance of other creeds and we welcome in closest association with us all those who, whatever creed, are themselves willing and ready to play their party as true and loyal citizens of Pakistan.”

— Jinnah’s address to ABC Radio in Australia (19 February 1948)

“…we will be the democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be theocratic state — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

— Jinnah’s address to the people of the United States (21 February 1948)

Pakistan has officially become a perverted theocratic republic. It is the reality. Illiterate and half-educated people dictate the fate of this country, which was never meant to be like this. People are practicing jahiliyyat in the name of religion. Whenever I criticize, I criticize this crypto-Jahilyyat - a perverted form of religious doctrine. It has nothing to do with actual religion.

 

[Lulldapull]

It wasn't meant to be a theocracy that is for sure.

According to Jinnahs own words.

Every one of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste, or creed, is first, second, and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make. […] You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the state.

— Jinnah’s address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan (11 August 1947)

“…the great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad (peace by upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. Islam demands from us tolerance of other creeds and we welcome in closest association with us all those who, whatever creed, are themselves willing and ready to play their party as true and loyal citizens of Pakistan.”

— Jinnah’s address to ABC Radio in Australia (19 February 1948)

“…we will be the democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be theocratic state — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims — Hindus, Christians and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

— Jinnah’s address to the people of the United States (21 February 1948)

oh bhai, the same thing happened in Iran in 1979! The revolution was about expelling the western colonialists and occupiers of national resources, but the mulla's were installed by the US to ensure communism is kept out of Iran. In our country, Bhutto sahb clearly told Henry kissinger to sod off and he will not play toady muzlim to CIA machinations on Afghanistan, because Bibrak Karmal had already turned socialist sorkha. Jimmy Carter was scared that the entire muzlim whulld will turn socialist. Zia ul Huq was quickly brought in and Bhutto hanged.

And you think I'm a larper? lol.......

Most of us here are liberals and disregard religion and western machinations on abusing it......god knows what makes you think I'm a larper?

Jinnah was a liberal atheist, just like Nehru was no? Everybody knows.

 

[Old School]

oh bhai, the same thing happened in Iran in 1979! The revolution was about expelling the western colonialists and occupiers of national resources, but the mulla's were installed by the US to ensure communism is kept out of Iran. In our country, Bhutto sahb clearly told Henry kissinger to sod off and he will not play toady muzlim to CIA machinations on Afghanistan, because Bibrak Karmal had already turned socialist sorkha. Jimmy Carter was scared that the entire muzlim whulld will turn socialist. Zia ul Huq was quickly brought in and Bhutto hanged.

And you think I'm a larper? lol.......

Most of us here are liberals and disregard religion and western machinations on abusing it......god knows what makes you think I'm a larper?

Jinnah was a liberal atheist, just like Nehru was no? Everybody knows.

Jinnah was exactly as myself- a freethinker. So was Nehru. Real educated people do not become fanatic mollahs.

 

[Lulldapull]

Jinnah was exactly as myself- a freethinker. So was Nehru. Real educated people do not become fanatic mollahs.

These three guys Gandhi, Jinnah Nehru all reported to Lord Mountbatten.

 

[Old School]

These three guys Gandhi, Jinnah Nehru all reported to Lord Mountbatten.

Lord Mountbatten was 111 times better than Zia-ul-Haq or Sharif brothers. I wish our country was still under British rule than these barbarians.

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

Pakistan has officially become a perverted theocratic republic. It is the reality. Illiterate and half-educated people dictate the fate of this country, which was never meant to be like this. People are practicing jahiliyyat in the name of religion. Whenever I criticize, I criticize this crypto-Jahilyyat - a perverted form of religious doctrine. It has nothing to do with actual religion.

If Pakistan does not become an Islamic Republic, what was the point of partition?
Then go live in Secular India then. lol.

Besides in an Islamic country, religious minorities are protected. Islam says to be tolerant.

 

[Old School]

If Pakistan does not become an Islamic Republic, what was the point of partition?
Then go live in Secular India then. lol.

Besides in an Islamic country, religious minorities are protected. Islam says to be tolerant.

What was the official name of Pakistan after partition in 1947 on 14th August ?

 

[MuHayMin]

If Pakistan does not become an Islamic Republic, what was the point of partition?
Then go live in Secular India then. lol.

Besides in an Islamic country, religious minorities are protected. Islam says to be tolerant.

india isnt a secular country and you know it, people like you are the issue. you will use terms like islam without knowing what it means. do you know in essence of islam, western countries are more islamic than we are. oh also to have actual islam there is only one law in the quran which is a must, which is prohibition of usury and interest. in the current climax of things we are incapable of bringing about such a system. islam has no doubt influenced the west which has shaped their modern civilizations. islam is meant to shape a civilization not what you people have made it into, a cult and a religion! you keep saying islam but whats the point when the surface and core of your civilization is sh1t, that change can only come from within.

"Indeed, Allāh will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves." Quran 13:11

 

[Old School]

india isnt a secular country and you know it, people like you are the issue. you will use terms like islam without knowing what it means. do you know in essence of islam, western countries are more islamic than we are. oh also to have actual islam there is only one law in the quran which is a must, which is prohibition of usury and interest. in the current climax of things we are incapable of bringing about such a system. islam has no doubt influenced the west which has shaped their modern civilizations. islam is meant to shape a civilization not what you people have made it into, a cult and a religion! you keep saying islam but whats the point when the surface of your civilization is sh1t, that change can only come from within. Indeed, Allāh will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.

Basically, Pakistan has become a "Banana Republic" where Islam means bigotry and Kangaroo justice. The more religious talk one does , more dark side they have to hide. Hypocrite and lunatic bunch of barbarians ruling the country but now they even chase you to the internet !!

 

[Lulldapull]

Basically, Pakistan has become a "Banana Republic" where Islam means bigotry and Kangaroo justice. The more religious talk one does , more dark side they have to hide. Hypocrite and lunatic bunch of barbarians ruling the country but now they even chase you to the internet !!

I have been warning about this since the day I joined this forum. We are in a lot of trouble! Iranis and China should intervene, before we turn into another Yugoslavia. It will be a massive disaster.

There is no economy, no unity, no religion or ideology, no law nor justice.

I'm watching our country slowly disintegrate, this is seriously messed up.

I'd hate to see us turn into another Libya, Iraq or Sudan.

 

[MuHayMin]

I have been warning about this since the day I joined this forum. We are in a lot of trouble! Iranis and China should intervene, before we turn into another Yugoslavia. It will be a massive disaster.

There is no economy, no unity, no religion or ideology, no law nor justice.

I'm watching our country slowly disintegrate, this is seriously messed up.

I'd hate to see us turn into another Libya, Iraq or Sudan.

as bad as pakistan is, we arent as bad that we need iran or china to come save us. slowly i have began to see change here which i will give credit. people are becoming more interested in the history of the country, nation building etc. having no ideology is kind of a good thing as neither do western countries have an ideology, they just serve their interests.

 

[Lulldapull]

as bad as pakistan is, we arent as bad that we need iran or china to come save us. slowly i have began to see change here which i will give credit. people are becoming more interested in the history of the country, nation building etc. having no ideology is kind of a good thing as neither do western countries have an ideology, they just serve their interests.

oh bhai, I got nothing against you. The issue with us is that here we are falling apart/ crumbling away no?.....we got a powerful muslim neigbor to our west no?......2500 saal say they one nation no?......never really colonized. What can we learn from them? ......likewise there is China......another very old civilizational state.

We don't look for advice from these two big nation states, we're just goin revert back to hinduism. That maybe ok for you, but it ain't ok for me......

Just saying.........

 

[MuHayMin]

oh bhai, I got nothing against you. The issue with us is that here we are falling apart/ crumbling away no?.....we got a powerful muslim neigbor to our west no?......2500 saal say they one nation no?......never really colonized. What can we learn from them? ......likewise there is China......another very old civilizational state.

We don't look for advice from these two big nation states, we're just goin revert back to hinduism. That maybe ok for you, but it ain't ok for me......

Just saying.........

Revert back to what? are you well?
Will the bhuddist and Zoroastrian parts of Pakkstan go back to those faiths too lol? When you say Iran is a powerful civilization I do agree with you, but the only reason we aren't because our journey compared that to the Persians have been much more ardous, we have fought wars against an enemy 5 times big, the war on terror, etc. So it's obvious we are suffering. Unlike Pakistan, iran hasn't been invaded multiple times and it isn't a post colonial country. Otherwise those Iranians aren't that great.

Yes we can learn from the Chinese but if you know the Chinese well they are more of a reserved nation. No one said you shouldn't learn from anyone.

Pakistan too is also a old civilization with a long indus valley history.

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

What was the official name of Pakistan after partition in 1947 on 14th August ?

I believe Dominion of Pakistan. But thats irrelevant.

Pakistan was created so Muslims could live according to Islamic laws. Otherwise there was no point of partition.
If you want to live in a secular country you are welcome to live in India then.

Islam says religious minorities must be protected. Islam says to be tolerant.

Even our great Quaid-e-Azam talks about Islamic democracy and Islamic Socialism in his speeches.

 

[MuHayMin]

I believe Dominion of Pakistan. But thats irrelevant.

Pakistan was created so Muslims could live according to Islamic laws. Otherwise there was no point of partition.
If you want to live in a secular country you are welcome to live in India then.

Islam says religious minorities must be protected. Islam says to be tolerant.

Even our great Quaid-e-Azam talks about Islamic democracy and Islamic Socialism in his speeches.

I believe Dominion of Pakistan. But thats irrelevant.

Pakistan was created so Muslims could live according to Islamic laws. Otherwise there was no point of partition.
If you want to live in a secular country you are welcome to live in India then.

Hey why don't you go to Saudi Arabia?

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

Hey why don't you go to Saudi Arabia?

Why should I? Pakistan is enough Muslim country for me. Why should I go anywhere else?

For a hypocrite like yourself, why don't you go to Saudi Arabia?

 

[MuHayMin]

Why should I? Pakistan is enough Muslim country for me. Why should I go anywhere else?

You should go to Saudi Arabia, it's more muslim. Because the guy who used to drink Whiskey definitely didn't intend to create an extremist nation full of people like you. Saudi Arabia is best suited for you, but you'll be seen as racially inferior there. That's the one setback there.

 

[Lulldapull]

Revert back to what? are you well?
Will the bhuddist and Zoroastrian parts of Pakkstan go back to those faiths too lol? When you say Iran is a powerful civilization I do agree with you, but the only reason we aren't because our journey compared that to the Persians have been much more ardous, we have fought wars against an enemy 5 times big, the war on terror, etc. So it's obvious we are suffering. Unlike Pakistan, iran hasn't been invaded multiple times and it isn't a post colonial country. Otherwise those Iranians aren't that great.

Yes we can learn from the Chinese but if you know the Chinese well they are more of a reserved nation. No one said you shouldn't learn from anyone.

Pakistan too is also a old civilization with a long indus valley history.

oh bhai, some of us here actually know Pakistan's history rather well. We went to good schools in Karachi and went on out west 30 years ago and have made millions of dollars......No issue there at all. Our problem is that we couldn't bring prosperity to our country overall. This is our failure! We followed the bad UK class based/ elitist system and we've hurt our nation in doing so.

Irani's did away with a class based aristocratic order 45 years ago now. Their engineers that I've worked with overseas are world class! Same same with the Chinese engineers. Both nations highly capable.

We are not total idiots......we just need good leadership. Problem with us is we don't believe in ourselves bhai. The Iranis, Chinese and the Russians do!......already the BRICS controls 33% of the world GDP. The G-7 the other 27%.......Things are changing.....

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

You should go to Saudi Arabia, it's more muslim. Because the guy who used to drink Whiskey definitely didn't intend to create an extremist nation full of people like you. Saudi Arabia is best suited for you, but you'll be seen as racially inferior there.

You have proof Quaid-e-Azam drank alcohol? Doesn't matter what Mr. Jinnah wanted anyways. He's dead now.
As a Muslim I follow what Islam says.

 

[MuHayMin]

oh bhai, some of us here actually know Pakistan's history rather well. We went to good schools in Karachi and went on out west 30 years ago and have made millions of dollars......No issue there at all. Our problem is that we couldn't bring prosperity to our country overall. This is our failure! We followed the bad UK class based/ elitist system and we've hurt our nation in doing so.

Irani's did away with a class based aristocratic order 45 years ago now. Their engineers that I've worked with overseas are world class! Same same with the Chinese engineers. Both nations highly capable.

We are not total idiots......we just need good leadership. Problem with us is we don't believe in ourselves bhai. The Iranis, Chinese and the Russians do!......already the BRICS controls 33% of the world GDP. The G-7 the other 27%.......Things are changing.....

You know a little too much about iran

 

[Lulldapull]

Hey why don't you go to Saudi Arabia?

oh bhai you living in dubai you telling Iqbal bhai to go to sawdi?.......come on bro?

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

You should go to Saudi Arabia, it's more muslim. Because the guy who used to drink Whiskey definitely didn't intend to create an extremist nation full of people like you. Saudi Arabia is best suited for you, but you'll be seen as racially inferior there. That's the one setback there.

By the way I am not Saudi citizen, nor do I speak Arabic. Don't talk nonsense, lol.

 

[MuHayMin]

You have proof Quaid-e-Azam drank alcohol? Doesn't matter what Mr. Jinnah wanted anyways. He's dead now.
As a Muslim I follow what Islam says.

Do you know alcohol was quite common in the Muslim World? Either way keep your mindset out of politics because that's why we're so bad of a nation. People like you who live in the west but want a state based on values you know nothing about. That's hypocrisy!

 

[MuHayMin]

By the way I am not Saudi citizen, nor do I speak Arabic. Don't talk nonsense, lol.

No your worse, your like a desert Arab. Imagine living in the west and having the views you do.

 

[MuHayMin]

oh bhai you living in dubai you telling Iqbal bhai to go to sawdi?.......come on bro?

Your point is?

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

Do you know alcohol was quite common in the Muslim World? Either way keep your mindset out of politics because that's why we're so bad of a nation. People like you who live in the west but want a state based on values you know nothing about. That's hypocrisy!

Hypocrisy? Muslims can live anywhere in the world. Many go to the West for higher education and economic reasons.

I see no hypocrisy. If I was calling for Islamic laws in Canada, then yes that would be hypocrisy. But I am calling for Islamic laws in Pakistan.

That is right.

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

No your worse, your like a desert Arab

I am a Pakistani, not an Arab. Nice try though, for a pea-sized brain such as yours.

 

[MuHayMin]

Hypocrisy? Muslims can live anywhere in the world. Many go to the West for higher education and economic reasons.

I see no hypocrisy. If I was calling for Islamic laws in Canada, then yes that would be hypocrisy. But I am calling for Islamic laws in Pakistan.

That is right.

You have no right to call for laws in my country

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

You have no right to call for laws in my country

I am also a Pakistani citizen. How are you more Pakistani than me? I am a Pakistani citizen, and I too have a right to have a say in it.

And who the hell are you to tell me what Pakistan should be or not should be? I am a Pakistani citizen and I have a right to form an opinion and have a right to have a say in it.

 

[Lulldapull]

You know a little too much about iran

I used to work 10 years down unda. When the China driven resource projects started in Australia, thousands of Irani skilled migrants came in on 457 visas. So we saw them running the show down unda. They would just run circles around pendu Aussies. Irani's got the $400k per year contract jobs. The Aussies were on half that remuneration, if lucky. You just had to be there to see it bhai. No bullshit.

Some of us you know, been around.

 

[MuHayMin]

I am a Pakistani, not an Arab. Nice try though, for a pea-sized brain such as yours.

Lol, whatever

 

[MuHayMin]

I used to work 10 years down unda. When the China driven resource projects started in Australia, thousands of Irani skilled migrants came in on 457 visas. So we saw them running the show down unda. They would just run circles around pendu Aussies. Irani's got the $400k per year contract jobs. The Aussies were on half that remuneration, if lucky. You just had to be there to see it bhai. No bullshit.

Some of us you know, been around.

Do you ever stop talking about Iranians, jeez

 

[MuHayMin]

I am also a Pakistani citizen. How are you more Pakistani than me? I am a Pakistani citizen, and I too have a right to have a say in it.

And who the hell are you to tell me what Pakistan should be or not should be? I am a Pakistani citizen and I have a right to form an opinion and have a right to have a say in it.

You have a right to it, but don't force it upon others or change Jinnahs speeches for you agenda

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

You have a right to it, but don't force it upon others or change Jinnahs speeches for you agenda

When did I change Jinnah's speeches? Where are you regurgitating garbage from?

I appreciate Jinnah's contributions to the Muslim League. But he is not my source for legislation.

 

[Old School]

We may have to provide little torture to wahabi preachers here which we did not allow before. Something Wahabi Madrassa boys get from their teachers. Pro- wahabi people are not going have honeymoon here anymore. I may have to bring in @ThunderCat to do it.

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

We may have to provide little torture to wahabi preachers here which we did not allow before. Something Wahabi Madrassa boys get from their teachers. Pro- wahabi people are not going have honeymoon here anymore. I may have to bring in @ThunderCat to do it.

Those who you call "Wahabis" are called really "Salafis."

 

[MuHayMin]

When did I change Jinnah's speeches? Where are you regurgitating garbage from?

You just said Jinnah created an Islamic state and when I pointed out drank whiskey which he most likely did because he was very inspired by liberalism if you know anything about it. You said you just follow Islam and Quran or whatever your twisted understanding of Islam is. Because that's definitely not Islam. So you are pushing for an agenda using Jinnah

 

[Mustafa.Iq]

You just said Jinnah created an Islamic state and when I pointed out drank whiskey which he most likely did because he was very inspired by liberalism if you know anything about it. You said you just follow Islam and Quran or whatever your twisted understanding of Islam is. Because that's definitely not Islam. So you are pushing for an agenda using Jinnah

That is YOUR CLAIM. Do you have proof Jinnah alcohol? And even if he did that makes him a sinner, not an apostate.
Yes, my father said although appreciates Jinnah, Jinnah was not very strict about Islam.

And Jinnah is irrelevant. He is not my source for legislation. I appreciate what he did for the All India Muslim League. But other than that,

Pakistan ka matlab kya "La illaha illala Muhummadur Rasoolulaah."

And what is your twisted understanding of Islam? Follow some of Islam and don't follow other parts of it?